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There is a surge of scientific denial in America. Climate change and evolution denial and flat earth theory, are examples of a scary regression in education and thinking.

Algebra was invented in Iran, a once very progressive country, academically, and much more liberal. So what happened?

More and more US schools are moving toward teaching evolution as simply "a theory" and not a scientific theory (they don't appear to know the difference).

What will happen to America as this continues?


Athena 8 Aug 7

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The left-pole regressives are in as much denial as any one else::::
The ice is melting: part of this is NATURAL (250k cycle, 1 million years of ice core evidence) AND human activities. But the LEFT denies any of it is natural. So, we are restricted to reacting to the shit the rightees spew.

The party of FACTS and SCIENCE has descended into trans-mania special rights, and obsession with gun violence::: DO SOME RESEARCH::: More guns now than in the 90's and way fewer homicides. And: the number of self defense gun uses are far more than the mass shootings. Which do not NOT include the drive-by shootings like the ones in chicago last month: denial of FACTS, DATA, EVIDENCE.

And of course: Men are not women: Yaniv wants justice for his balls. Canada is lost in the muck.

I think you are ignorant and in need of a soul. Get to work on that, won't you?

Talk about anti-science!!!! Facts don't care about your feelings.

@Veteran229 Yeah, damn those peaceful authoritarians. They're gunna turn on you.
Any minute now.
'Cause few believe them. Which is why they won the last election.
Yep. Those few, who are the majority of the electorate.

Some ice melt is natural, sure, but the rate at which it is happening, in apparent response the human caused rising of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere, is not natural. I have no idea where you got the idea that the LEFT denies that any of it is natural.

@BirdMan1 The "Left" seems to be the boogeyman. Whenever a bad guy is needed, summon the "Left". Never blame extremists, they are on both sides, so that would be uncomfortable.


Theocracy is the greatest enemy of humanity's freedom of thought.

Think that about sums it up.

In that case communism (in practice) appears to be a close second


Every great civilization has fallen to the scrap heap of time. I have a video series put out by Time/Life year’s ago (yes, they are video tapes) that shows the rise and fall of human civilization in various areas of the world over the span of human existence. From the Babylonians to the Romans, the Incas to Greeks and others. All were advanced civilizations for their times. All of them fell to ruin, some for observable reasons (natural disasters), some to war, and some for unknown circumstances.
Our country has been fortunate to have survived several near calamities (wars, civil strife, financial collapse), but the storm clouds are once again brewing, divisions are like earthquakes, splitting to the point where facts and truth are subjective. Will we recover once again? Will another civilization rise up from the mass of humanity to take over our vaunted position in the world? China and Russia are certainly watching for our weakness, if not actively helping to stir it.
Time will tell. Contrary to Christian lore, the future is not in their book of legends. It is a evolving and ever changing mix of nature, humanity and the unpredictability of their combination. Live each day to the best of your ability, fight for right when you see wrong, but most importantly, enjoy every moment you can, life is a finite thing and there are no redo’s.

@BeerAndWine, it was a series put out by Time/Life, I think I have ten tapes, probably thirty years ago. If you want to look for it online, it is called “Lost Civilizations”.

@BeerAndWine I found these:

And Amazon has the series available as well I think.


Check out Jared Diamond's newest book, "Upheaval, Turning Points for Nations in Crisis." The U.S.has something of starring role, therein.


An acceleration of the current brain drain from the religiously conservative states to the more plural ones, leading to a hardening of state boundaries and possible a full balkanisation of the US.

Wow, I’m afraid you’re right..


We are witnessing the violent thrashing death throes of Christianity in the US. With each new generation the percentage of Christian believers falls. Conservative evangelical leaders see the writing on the wall (to borrow a metaphor from their book of bronze age fairy tales) and are trying desperately to impose their beliefs on everyone using the power and resources they currently have. They don't have enough dedicated people to do it now and they certainly won't in the future. We just push back against their ignorance wherever we see it and allow time to wipe them away. Voting against evangelical candidates in local, state, and national elections is one effective way to fight back. Showing up at school board meetings and speaking if you see evangelicals trying to distort the curriculum of your school system with their ignorance is another. Voting against Trump (and the corrupt ignorance he brought to DC) in the 2020 election and getting others to get out and do the same is perhaps the most obviously critical action we can all take. We don't have to live in Idiocracy (although it is a great movie).

Exactly what happened in a Pennsylvania town, some years ago. I can't recall its name at the moment, but when people voted the deluded ones from the BOE, is when Pat Roberson (can we bring back tarring and feathering?) said that the town had better not ever have need of god's help, because it would not be forthcoming. This is, of course, the wise one who knew the answer to "Why does God let a 3 year old die of cancer?" Live, on his blasphemous, (if blasphemy is valid in any context), he said that God does that because He knows that if that child were to live, "...he'd become another Hitler." Of course, the obvious follow-up question, "Then if God is omnipotent, why did he not give cancer to young Adolph?" was not forthcoming. Sheep do not know how to think.


Arguably a larger and more harmful trend than our current surge of white nationalism. The place on the Venn diagram where they intersect is labeled "We are good and truly fucked."

Wha is frightening is they are forming alliances to skew elections, especially local ones, towards candidates that are 100% committed to their domination of government. And they have been at it for a generation or more. Gerrymandering has allowed them to control voting in many states and localities. With control of school boards they control the books used and the curriculums of districts. Trump and McConnell are the culmination of decades of hard work on the part of Falwell, Robertson and others in the Christian Right movement. To fight back, the Liberals, Progressives and mainstream Christians have to organize rather than squabble, run electable candidates in local and state elections and be much more aware of what happens in their schools.

@Barnie2years Yeah, you're right. It's always tougher to organize people who can think for themselves than to get a bunch of ignorant zealots to do stuff for ridiculous reasons. Voltaire said those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. We see that all too clearly recently, but it is nothing new.

@zeuser One of my favorite Voltaire quotes!! We see it acted out regularly, damn!

@BirdMan1 Too true. 😞


Evolution is not just a "theory". It is established scientific fact. To assert otherwise is to embrace irrationality, superstition, and ignorance. We must make that more than abundantly clear.

@Athena I do not recall who voiced it, but the concept is "Biology can not be understood" absent evolution.

The philosophy of Science would still regard Evolution as a theory. All scientific 'laws' are theories and only remain until a better theory that fits the observations of nature more closely replaces them.

@Fretherne1 What; you do nolt mention is that a theory is not just a random set of conjectures without a basis in fact. Instead, a scientific theory is built on proven valid concepts, principles and laws which indicate a great likelihood that the :theory: is largely correct. Please note the difference between what a theory actually is and how the religious true believers falsely use the word.


A well-informed and educated electorate is necessary for democracy to survive. This is why the Rethuglicans, powered in part by the religious right, do not like proper education and prefer to keep their young brainwashed in their private, or home, schools; or work to hijack the local public school systems.

Absolutely to all of that. But we have to enjoy this time somehow.

Well, Republicans are the ones manning the guns and trying to do the political gruntwork. If the Democrats, Republicans or Libertarians really knew anything, they might listen but there's what, maybe three U.S. politicians who actually know how to make and exact an agenda?


Regression. You are right about the significance and pre-eminence of Iran and Persia in the historical advancement of science, math, and navigation.

When the catholic church chased science, math, and intellectual pursuit out of Europe (known as the Dark Ages) it was about 500 years before Europe reclaimed the mantle of intellectual advancement.

We presently are in the midst of a movement that has similarities to the Dark Ages. It might be difficult to fully go Dark given the Internet and media access.

Both St. Augustine and Martin Luther, have been quoted as saying it is not good to educate the people.
This is directly connected to Nominee Trump's claim, possibly thefts time he did not publicly lie, that "I love the uneducated."


Education has its problems, but in minor defense of my profession, imagine living in an area filled with backward thinking adults who believe the bible literally, or watch Fox News religiously, or have very little education themselves, or (often worse than all of those) have no regard for the value of education.

Getting a class of 35 children of those kinds of parents and expecting even the most competent teacher to turn around an indoctrinated culture of ignorance is often tantamount to asking for magic. (Movie classrooms are never anything like actual classrooms.)

@Athena I have hundreds (if not thousands) of stories, but one that might illustrate this is a time I was teaching "The Crucible". I had to keep emphasizing that there were no witches, and when that didn't always get the traction I wanted, I retreated to, "Even if you believe in witches, there were no witches in Salem. It was hysteria dramatized in this play," yada yada yada.

Once we got deep enough into the play, everyone seemed to be on board, at least insofar as the events of the play were concerned. We finished the play, took our test, watched the Daniel Day Lewis version of the movie--everyone seemed to have the appropriate emotional response at the end when he was hanged by the hysteria of the village, etc.

It was the last class of the day, and everyone had shuffled out, except one student who asked me if I knew that witches were real. I gently poo-pooed the idea. He said someone caught a witch on video on youtube. He showed me the video. It was a balloon.

He absolutely and sincerely believed it was proof of a witch. He was not joking with me. (It made me feel like the entire unit failed. At least for that kid.)

I was in Boston Common a couple of weeks ago. There were four women, I thinks JW's, handing out pamphlets holding up a sign that read: 18 things you must tell your Children ( or something like that).

My kids 15 & 12 are non-believers in a very believing community. They seem to be holding up well, but I fear the worse is yet to come.

My eyes burnt a hole through her, no doubt. Even I was a little shocked at how immediately this pissed me off. My immediate thoughts were that children aren't the problem, maybe there are 18 things adults need to hear!


If it was up to fundamental Christians, the United States would be very similar to the middle east I think so. As far as the culture that is.


Iran became much more regressive as a result of US behavior . . .


Disaster if nobody listens get climate denying republicans out of office and we can do something


Religious intolerance is dangerous, regardless of which one. Ultimately, religion is a philosophy of ignorance and intolerance. Scary.


I think it will cause a seismic rift between the will of the authorities and the will of the people. If there was a real difference between the two parties, maybe the people could remove these dinosaurs from office. The birth of a new, third political party might help too but for reasons unknown to me, that has never happened.

We don’t need one third party, we need at least two. A moderate Conservative Party to give Conservatives a better choice than the Tea Party and a Progressive Liberal Party to give Democrats a choice to determine the direction of the Liberals.


Teaching children to think and dream is more important than teaching facts ... but teaching kids what to think is the worst education possible.


Sadly, Issac Asimov stated in the sixties that, "There is a cult of ignorance in this country!" the more I see the the more I believe him.

BillF Level 7 Aug 7, 2019

The influence of religious ignorance can be blamed for much of this. Despite what some people will claim, religion and science are not compatible. Their goals are polar opposite so the more science denial you see, the more religious ignorance you'll encounter.


That’s a question I like to run by the young religious pushers knocking on my door or stopping me in the street.. They enjoy the safety and security of a nation that once understood, appreciated, and utilized science. No more.

I’ve had this go-round in the past with various online ‘conservative/ religion pushers.’ How do they expect us to keep up with scientific advances around the world when our youth are discouraged or kept from learning how ‘evolution’ affects bacteria or a virus? ...I’ll take a guess - we fall further behind on cutting edge research - and they blame it on the ‘Liberals’ 😕

Varn Level 8 Aug 7, 2019

What happened is an influx of gaslighters who exaggerate things like Trump does but not always for political reasons. They bring their views to the forefront to push religion or start a movement, as well as to save money by denying environment conditions and just ripping the wealth from the ground. With the new trend in flat earth and other things out of the past many claim it must be true because it is gaining followers. They forget that someone is also selling videos and T-shirts, booking public pay by seat meetings, and getting paid by clicks to sites and pics posted. Maybe they are even writing new books but their is no new evidence. Antivaxxers write books and now the old diseases are starting to come back again. It is because of vaccinations that I saw polio disappear in my life time. Many do not believe this and it is not acceptable to them.

Meanwhile you will be convinced of lizard people and Nazis on the moon because there is money to be made. There is always money to be made and the money they want is yours. If religion is somehow in that picture as well, the believers take the whole thing as proving that they were right all along.


Denial? Try living here, our current administration is working diligently to bring us back to the 1950's and disassemble every advancement to society made since the days of slavery.
We have the most atheistic president we have ever had that is manipulating the religious sheep as well as Hitler ever did, he's just still looking for his scapegoat before he can destroy America.
Sadly the blindly religious who have bought into his scare tactics will elect him again because everyone else seems too apathetic.
An Australian built a god damned ark and then sued the people who gave him the money to build it because it got water damage from GOD DAMNED RAIN. THAT is the America I live in.


They're destined for the dustbin of history (hopefully) just like:

The Native American Party, renamed the American Party in 1855 and commonly known as the Know Nothing movement

Founded 1844
Dissolved 1860
Preceded by Whig Party
Succeeded by Constitutional Union Party
Headquarters New York City
Secret wing Order of the Star Spangled Banner
Ideology American nationalism
Political position Right-wing
Religion Protestantism

At least their name was honest!

Native American Party having nothing to do with Native Americans. Pretty typical of Right Wing backwards ideology.


These situations are not unique historically. Iran's progressiveness is debatable although its current state is pernicious to enlightenment in many ways.
Superstition, ignorance have been used all over the world for a long time. We are more aware because of our technology and news cycles. What is happening is no less abhorrent however.


its called sticking your head in the sand and its so dangerous for everyone. fuck having a beautiful lie.


The wealthy and their corporations have a vested interest in controlling the people!

As long as you have ill educated and ill advised populace and workforce, the wealthy and their corporations can keep the populace divided and apart maintaining an education and health system that keeps the populace in debt!

The schools, colleges, and universities no longer teach skills necessary to earn a comfortable job or placement.
Student debt keeps way too many in an endless circle of debt!

The medical system is overtly expensive, it does nothing to create a healthy society!
The cost of basic medical care, surgeries, and rehabilitation is not affordable to over half the populace of this country!


Interesting wording to your question Athena. If your question was "What will happen to America if this continues?", then the answer would be a theocracy along the lines of Iran only with a Christian bent. But you asked, "as this continues". That's really going to depend on how we who stand on the ground of reason while trying our best to apply critical thinking respond. When the outspoken people afflicted with the God virus push for religious programming in school and vocalize bronze-aged viewpoints when attempting to dissuade scientific evidence, we need to speak up. If we don't, we only have ourselves to blame.

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