Who indeed?

I was going to say as likely a polluted water source, or bad animal husbandry, until I read this stella response!

[independent.co.uk]

@maturin1919 Possibly, but it's fun to speculate, and every now and then genuine proof is indeed found.

@Petter ...fun for you maybe, but another person might bite into a story as the ‘gospel fact’ and pass it on, until we have a movement over one ‘man’s fun’ speculation!

@Freedompath Great. Imagine me as the founder of a new sect! The "Sod 'em and Gonorrhea" church.

@Petter I can...but do you still have the ‘where-with-all’ to pull it off?

@Freedompath At my age I worry that the slightest tension would indeed "pull it off".

@Petter and these are the ‘golden years!’ I wish I had appreciated the ‘tin years’more...as the ‘golden’ ones have lack their ‘pomp and circumstance!’

Archeologists have unearthed possible contenders.

The site, which is believed to date back between 3500 and 1540 BC, is marked by a large mound that may have once been two cities - lower and upper - where the rich and elite lived, according to Sky News. Researchers have found defensive walls 10m high and 5m thick, gates, towers, plazas and ramparts, as well as a 'Red Palace' in the upper city.

@Petter You lambast RT but accept Murdoch propoganda as truth?

@FrayedBear It's actually a clip from "The Independent" newspaper, one of the publications that has no "big-money-mogul" behind it.
I would no more trust Fox and Murdoch than I would Putin or Trump.

There have been many incidents reported in African newspapers of bestiality, the most common one involving, strangely, poultry.
Then there's the old joke about sheep. Remember, it doesn't have to be everyone committing bestiality.
HIV probably came from a man near the Ruwenzori mountains having sex with an Ape (alive or dead) and acquiring the virus. From then on it will transmit, especially in sex acts that cause lesions ot where skin is weak, as in women who have undergone female circumcision.

causation /correlation miss thinking again history can be outrages sometime

My only problem with such an event is that people would have rebuilt the cities.

That is one possible postulation, but such an event should have caused a very, very large depression.

HIV was quite likely initiated by bestiality with Apes, probably a gorilla, possibly dead.

@Petter Is that academically conclusive or an urban legend?

@Geoffrey51 When AIDS was explained to Ugandans in the 1970s, they said "Oh. You mean Slims?" (This is first hand. At the time, I was living in Uganda.)
The area of the Ruwenzori mountains, (Western Uganda and Eastern Congo) was traced to be the origin of the disease, and reckoned to have jumped from Gorillas to man.
Here's a link to HIV and gorillas.
[sciencedaily.com]

@Petter Thanks Petter. I know about the jump from many monkey/gorilla to human but the summary doesn’t refer to the cause being bestiality.

@Geoffrey51 That comes from my cultured Ugandan friends berating the behaviour of uneducated peasants in the Congo.

Isn't that what social media was designed to do, waste time?

I doubt that claim stands up to any scrutiny.

@brentan Oh but it does. Young boys were given to a mentor to train. Homosexuality was the norm in Sparta. You attacked with your right hand whilst defending the guy on your left with your shield. It was thought that you would be more loyal to someone you had had sex with than just another comrade
The trouble was that guys got too into gay sex and it became a problem for them to make babies with their wives. One trick was where the wife would dress as a young boy and get a room in the tavern. Hubby would go out drinking with his mates and then take a break. Fuck his wife doggie style then return to the table. Even those ploys grew stale though and Spartans went from a large force to an elite officer class. Eventually being beaten by the Thracians

@273kelvin I checked your statement out on Google and came up with counter-claims that heterosexual marriage and child-bearing was very much part of Spartan society. People interpret the claims according to their prejudices. One webpage giving an example of this is about Nixon's claims for the demise of ancient Greece and Sparta, among other ancient civilisations:

[pages.vassar.edu]

@brentan I got it from a BBC documentary, so I assumed the historian was of note and the facts were kosha.

@273kelvin I grew up with a lot of respect for the BBC too so I won't dismiss what they say too fast. I'm not sure it has the same credibility it had in the past, though.

Is this theory based on any real evidence? Was someone writing stuff like this down back in the day or was it all based on speculation? Perhaps they were always going into battle and just ran out of men by attrition? When you consider one horny guy could probably impregnate several women a day the whole argument doesn't seem to hold much water...

@prometheus That would presuppose infidelity by the Spartan wives. A highly dishonorable act. They were an elite fighting force with very strict codes, similar to the samurai.

@273kelvin do you know for a fact they didn't have thrupels, polyamory, and orgies? Plus if the very survival of your clan is at stake rules can change. A bit of consensual impregnation Gilead style could easily become socially acceptable.

The virus passes due to close proximity over a lengthy period. ie. To a poultry farmer or seller/butcher. Think a cut on the Human's hand and poultry blood.
However, think tabloid press. Screaming headline, salacious subject and wow! Booming circulation!

This was God's displeasure with the chinese communist party! Lol

Asteroid "air blast", natural gas explosion, war and pestilence.
There are various archeological camps. It's fun to add another suggestion!!!

An imaginative postulation designed to stir interest in things other than dating and politics.

We can't have any of that sexual immorality going on however murdering those people that commit sexual immorality is OK.

I don't think this Jehovah character liked people in general all that much - only the sycophants.

From where do you think AIDS originated? (the area of the Ruwenzori mountains.) Long before the world named it AIDS the people of Western Uganda and Eastern Congo had a name for it. "Slims".

@Gwendolyn2018 My "gutter theory" is much more interesting, just less likely!

@Gwendolyn2018 Very subjective. Its all in the eye.....never mind.

My point precisely. People did not know about micro-organisms. So to what would verbally transmitted legends, handed down from the bronze age, attribute such a pandemic other than to a god's wrath.

Actually camels are the main carrier of syphilis, in the same way that horses carry tetanus, and it's a common disease amongst camel handlers in the middle east from being bitten.

@Cyklone in class it was noted that the spirochete in sheep is very similar to syphilis but different could have mutated into syphilis initially several thousand years ago, like the SARS and corona viruses today mutating from other animals . Not a recent mutation syphilis has been around a very long time

@Cyklone No mummy, I'm a good girl. I'm still a virgin, honest! I was bitten by a camel.

@Petter Pretty sure that's how virgin birth came about. Mary was only about 13 or 14 at the time. No mom , I didn't have sex with Joseph it was the Holy Spirit that impregnated me.

@abyers1970 According to Roman Catholic dogma, Mary's mother also had a virgin birth, in order for Jesus to be born of a woman without original sin.
The birth of Mary's mother is celebrated on December 8th, the feast of the immaculate conception. So it's a case of "like mother, like daighter". ..... and Jesus's father is also his grandfather, according to their dogma!!

@Petter I did not know that about Mary’s mother. I’m sure that recollection is about as accurate as the Crown of thorns in Notre Dame cathedral actually being the one that Jesus wore.

@abyers1970 It was part of the bullshit fed to me as a ten year old in mandatory catechism class during primary school. In secondary school it was optional, meaning I opted OUT!!

@Gwendolyn2018 Maybe she was!!

@Gwendolyn2018 Furthermore, Jesus was a trouble maker.
Consider - she went into a temple where people were legitimately going about their money lending business and upset all the tables!
Only an obstreperous woman would do such a thing!!

@Gwendolyn2018 But haven't you ever turned the tables on someone, or at least wished to do so?

@Gwendolyn2018 or

Really, sex with an angel? That would be my last choice. I'd go downstairs given the choice.

@rogueflyer I was a Christian for 30 years so I know the story well

Answers In Genesis makes a convincing argument that the main sin was rape. Homosexuality was just a byproduct of their proclivity for sexual violence. [answersingenesis.org]

The sin is widely interpreted by christians as being homosexuality but in fsct the sin wasn't the gender of the angels, who may not even have had their genders mentioned. Why do we assume they were male? No, the sin was treating strangers badly, being inhospitable.

Keeping in mind of course that we are analyzing a work of fiction.

g

@genessa To my knowledge there were never any female angels in the Bible. I could be wrong but I don’t remember any

@abyers1970 but these were not necessarily named angels. they could have come in any guise -- they could have been in drag there is also no mention of the townspeople's KNOWING what gender the strangers were. the point is, everyone has made an awful lot of assumptions, and most of them fit a preexisting agenda. all this is moot since it's just a story, but still.

g

@genessa Its pretty obvious who the townspeople thought they were. I copied this from Genesis and they clearly state men which goes along with the idea that homosexuality was the sin God destroyed Sodom for which is made up anyway so it doesn't matter

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

Interesting that Lot was saved from destruction yet he offered up his daughters to the men instead of the angel.

@abyers1970 that is one hell of a translation. i hope you realize it is not close to the original hebrew. ה וַיִּקְרְאוּ אֶל-לוֹט וַיֹּאמְרוּ לוֹ, אַיֵּה הָאֲנָשִׁים אֲשֶׁר-בָּאוּ אֵלֶיךָ הַלָּיְלָה; הוֹצִיאֵם אֵלֵינוּ, וְנֵדְעָה אֹתָם. 5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him: 'Where are the men that came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.' okay it says men. but know can have many meanings.

g

They didn't. They blamed a mythical figure.