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Fellow agnostics, how do you feel about believers joining?

This is likely contentious, but it needs to be asked. As this is a site "...promoting universal truths and peaceful life without religion" how do you feel about people of faith joining here?

I'm no shrinking violet and I don't need the sort of safe space that so many people believe they do now, but I also don't want to have to engage with people who have been inculcated into some form of unscientific, simple-minded view of the natural world.

I joined in the belief (cough) that this was an exclusive club where I could escape from these folk - but now I find they are joining - with a view to what, I don't know although my hackles are raised.

Not only is this sort of thing wasteful of resources, but if they are here to try to convert or preach at us, that's likely to result in a dissemination to all-out flame wars in a post or two.

I didn't think this was a site to convert people from one way of thinking to another (that sort of thing is nigh-on impossible by the time we're in our 20s anyway.)

I ask because I'm interested what my fellow angostic/athiests think.

I've noted that "theists" tend to butt in to these conversations with their ignorance and that's what I came here to avoid.

I'm getting too old to argue.

Draco 6 Sep 25
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583 comments (426 - 450)

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2

My feeling is that the religious minded person would not linger here...it is not geared toward the way their thinking has developed! On the other hand, there are among the religious people those that are skeptical and are ‘exploring!’ And the last, would be those hard core, almost mentally unstable people, that are bound to ‘infiltrate’ to show ‘those devil worshipers’ that they are going straight to ’hell!’ So if there is an individual plan in place to ‘traverse this landscape’ with these people...it will be fine!

4

I don’t have issues with people having faith. In my opinion, religion is just a way to feel good about death and the afterlife.

Now, with that being said, I do have an issue with people that are too religious to the point of joining this site and trying to convert. But, I think the best way to handle them is to keep our emotions in check and report them without engaging them. Which is why I believe there was a “level” system that was placed. So that a new member can’t spam new accounts and keep on harassing members that don’t agree with their point of view.

In summary, don’t engage people that are obviously trying to push religion on you. Report their accounts and posts and let the admins handle it.

Leo716 Level 6 July 24, 2018
3

No. I would leave. They've brought enough violence into my RL, I don't want to encounter it here and I don't want to have to tiptoe around their precious feelings as I have to do at work.

7

I'm in favor of letting anyone join, but I also favor booting out anyone who proselytizes.

2

Yin needs Yang. What good is a seesaw with one participant? Our values are meaningless without an opposing view. I welcome them if their conversations are respectful. Quote: "Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer" Machiavelli. 😉

my values - mostly on ethical grounds - stand for themselves, without needing opposition. urghhh, macchiavelli, the believer in ruling by fear of punishment...

@walklightly We can pick lines of philosophy from most of the great works. We don't have to like who wrote them. 😉

2

I agree. I didn't join this site to argue with people of different beliefs. I don't believe in excluding people but if theists join they need to understand that this is not a forum for them to promote their beliefs.

1

It's ok with me, but I am here to avoid religious dogma and it's pushers.

5

Here's the thing: If a "Theist" or even more importantly an "Evangelical" bring beliefs into this forum, here's my message to that person:

Put on your big girl or big boy pants when you come here. Don't cry, whine, bleed or worse - prosthelytize - on this forum. Put up or shut up. Make an intellectual case or keep your mouth shut. If you fee a need to claim victim status, you'll get the mental heat you deserve.

Frankly, I doubt that any believer would have the guts to enter a conversation where the playing field isn't tilted in their direction. As a whole, especially evangelicals are gutless wonders who stay in their sheep pens.

So, bottom line - there's not much chance anyone who has been skating along with a loose grip on rigorous intellectual discourse will even be interested in being here.

The delusional believers (redundant) do obsess over us Atheists and I DEMAND THEY CONDEMN their bibles which brands all of us Atheists as "fools" and "reprobates" on the pages of their genocidal misogynistic pro-violent abortion manuals....2nd Kings 15:16 Amos 1:13 Hosea 13:16 and 2nd Kings 8:12 ....: " RIP open the bellies of pregnant women...." ALL SAMARIAN women so violently aborted and their "virgin" sisters "kept alive for yourselves." Jehovah rewards his holy warriours with rape trophies

2

Don't mean shit to me. I take joy in tearing them and their absurd beliefs to spreads. I am doubtful anyone other than the most mentally ill would venture into a platform where reason rules the day. (SHREADS NOT SPREADS)

5

We'd only be leaving ourselves open to propaganda, rhetoric and all the b.s. that goes with that. Think double agent and see where your head goes... probably not the greatest idea to let them in here and make order out of our lovely chaos.

7

I really don't want them here! This is the only place that we are free from all that garbage! My opinion!

totally with you!

4

No Way! if converters join I will leave, simple eh!

Only problem is that's probably what they are going for. Make them renounce their fictional god to sign up.

please don't! we need to maintain this precious non-hypocritical, taboo-free & openminded space for intelligent folks. report them, block them, but please don't leave.

4

I don't see why they should be here. They have enough places to go. Now that they have been given protection to discriminate. I want them gone. I went from being atheist to antitheist. I am so tired of their ignorance and circular reasoning. Like their kind like to say"you can't fix stupid".

3

I don't care, but I won't get out of my to make their life's easy. It depends on attitude.
I don't know of a real way to prevent them from joining except to have this site unfriendly to them. Admin has been swift to remove theist offenders in the past. If more join, their plate gets fuller.

2

I'm on record several times here saying that I don't think this is a site for believers, but I respect the site policy. I do think there is a difference between believers who perhaps wish to engage here intelligently, and preaching types intent on saving souls and so on. The latter are not welcomed. I don't think there are many like that here, thankfully.

The other problem is definitional. What is a believer? Are Buddhists, new age spiritual types, secular religionists, non supernatural religionists, and others like that by definition believers? Is it just abrahamic religionists we call believers? When I joined I thought the demarcation was clear. But now it is murkier.

I thought the distinction was pretty clear also. I still do, and I'll briefly say why: For many of those 'others' of which you speak, spiritualists and so on, are dodging the issue. They know that the traditional religions are horse hocky, but don't want to give up having SOME sort of 'special' friend(s). Aliens or spooks and goblins or whatever... It's a dishonest attempt at calling themselves 'advanced' emotionally and/or mentally. It's a way of keeping the essence of religion without the book(s) and rules. I personally feel if one is going to claim to have rejected religion, one shouldn't be afraid to say so, bluntly, honestly. When I was still married, I called myself an agnostic, one who doesn't claim to know all the answers. (And I'd say it that way) Because I knew my wife's family already felt I was lower than dirt. I was never a Catholic. And they were. (Don't ask why I married a Catholic girl... who went to Catholic schools and all of it. I wasn't thinking... And hey, she WAS cute!) Now, I realize I was just trying to keep the uneasy peace, by saying Agnostic. That was dishonest. I wanted to avoid an all-out brawl over religion. So I can see why others might say they are something they are not. What I don't get, is why they say they are NOT something they ARE...

@Junkman I agree with you 1000% and indeed I call these people pseudo religionists, who are attracted to the trimmings and trappings of religion, while technically rejecting religion. I have no time for it. For me the line is very clear, but for some believer non religionists it isn't and I can see that any policy here that "believers" are not welcome would erupt in a huge debate on the meaning of the term.

4

I don't like the idea of excluding anyone, especially on the basis of religion. However, this is the place we came to to get away from religious delusion, and it's nice to not have to deal with their shit here. I'd really rather not share this space with people who think the Noah's Ark story is real.

3

everyone has a block button use it accordingly

3

I welcome the ones who are here because they have actually read their book and are questioning what they've been taught. Many of us were there once.

5

Open to all. Just no proselytizing. Block 'em if 'ya don't like 'em.

2

Welcome to the dark side

3

When I was discussing this concept on a different thread, I was pretty addament that they shouldn't be here, but after stumbling onto lewellyn3's bio I've been rethinking it, and I have a new perspective that I'd like to share.
Some of us (the nons) I'll refer to them as "the lucky ones" have always been in the revered position of never having to waste even one moment on any religious bull shit.
The rest of us got here through various amounts of tough sledding, we've all got our stories. The point being someone/s and/or something/s happened that either started to loosen they're grasp on the dogma and let in a little bit of the light of reality, or helped us to get rid of it epiphany style. Without whatever that was, where would we be without it?
For some people coming on here and politely observing the comings and goings might be what works for them.
I got my epiphany on my own, but then I didn't know what to do with it. Lucky for me I found some atheist 2.0s (Hitchens Dawkins Harris etc.) and some marvelous atheist comics to help nurture my just sprouting atheist seed. And the rest, thank the universe, is history.
So, if they're respectful, and here to learn, and not to teach, then I say let em in. And if they have some other agenda, then kick em the hell off, and let them go with god wherever they what, as long as it's not here.

4

Had someone bitching me out over the circumsision topic on another post and kind of felt like I was being religiously attacked even tho she was against it because it's a religious thing. My choices have nothing to do with religion, her beliefs or anyone else's and I didn't like that she was in my face about it. I don't have a problem with people who believe, but if you try to force your opinion down my throat, for any reason or belief or whatever, theres gonna be problems.

circumcision of girls and baby boys is reprehensible criminal and equal to cannibalism as a "religious thing"... that is how I have stood on the health policy for 30 years.... I'm not into shaming people for having a different view....I've never rushed into a hospital and took away a scalpel&clamp or disarmed a Mohel in a synogogue....I'd defend someone who did...and I forgive parents who stupidly allowed their children to be sexually mutiliated....I encourage everyone to read Ayaan Hirsi Ali report on her mother and grandmother sexually abusing her and calling her a whore for menstruating at an earlier age than them....millions of girls on this planet are sexually mutilated by muslims with dirty knives and cleaner but just as painful sexual mutilation of baby boys should be prohibited by global law just as cannibalism is banned.... it's all a matter of education, over coming the propaganda and censorship of this issue not SHAMING PEOPLE WE KNOW HERE

1
7

The site is specific about its audience. Freethinkers, agnostics, atheists etc. Belivers have their own sites and piss off there. I don’t mind those who have a sense of spirituality, but those who follow organized religion and interject themselves into our community really aren’t welcome, IMO. I have come here to escape stupidity and conflict. They should stick to Facebook.

Livia Level 6 Aug 12, 2018
5

Send them to Christian mingle. No one has time for their bullshit and delusions.
I will mock and ridicule them until they leave.

Harsh, I agree with the first part, but I have met some lovely theists who are tolerant of atheists and are interested and interesting. I don’t want them on this site as I came here to run away from belivers, but I wouldn’t mock or ridicule one.

@Livia I feel dirty every time I am forced to deal with a believer pretending faux innocent belief/faith....I joined agnostic dot com for dating/courtship with an Atheist woman & getting news 1st hand from Atheists fighting theocracy where ever they may be victim of it.....there can be no justification or rationalizing away all the genocide, rape, murder of scientists and sexual mutilation of children by religions....believers who show zero remorse for their own religious heritage DO NOT BELONG HERE period

@GreenAtheist that’s the way I feel about the military and cops.

@Livia I'm a US Navy Vet never denying my resistance to the illegal invasion of Vietnam and Senator McCain was a war criminal shot down during his bombing of North Vietnamese cities....cops shoot people at will telling lies about their murders after they claim self defense from unarmed victims they shoot to death.....but more cops remain silent if not actively aiding the cover up of murderous cops....we need to demand justice and jailing all criminals in government from top to bottom

@GreenAtheist That is the best answer I ever have had. I don’t have problems with soldiers- I have a problem with the way that their young lives and sacrifice is exploited, and the way they are treated post war. No support, no money, nothing. They are taken into illegal and unjustified wars and then traumatized, wounded for life, or dead.

With cops it’s personal- they beat a member of my family to death with their bare fists. They covered it up and we lost the case we brought against the police. As per usual in such cases.

@Livia it is true most of us vets are denied compensation for the traumatic brain injuries of conductive hearing loss and tinnitus.... war is a fucking loud harmful activity not to mention the poison of Agent Orange that took one of my brother's legs and murdered millions of people billions of trees

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