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Fellow agnostics, how do you feel about believers joining?

This is likely contentious, but it needs to be asked. As this is a site "...promoting universal truths and peaceful life without religion" how do you feel about people of faith joining here?

I'm no shrinking violet and I don't need the sort of safe space that so many people believe they do now, but I also don't want to have to engage with people who have been inculcated into some form of unscientific, simple-minded view of the natural world.

I joined in the belief (cough) that this was an exclusive club where I could escape from these folk - but now I find they are joining - with a view to what, I don't know although my hackles are raised.

Not only is this sort of thing wasteful of resources, but if they are here to try to convert or preach at us, that's likely to result in a dissemination to all-out flame wars in a post or two.

I didn't think this was a site to convert people from one way of thinking to another (that sort of thing is nigh-on impossible by the time we're in our 20s anyway.)

I ask because I'm interested what my fellow angostic/athiests think.

I've noted that "theists" tend to butt in to these conversations with their ignorance and that's what I came here to avoid.

I'm getting too old to argue.

Draco 6 Sep 25
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583 comments (251 - 275)

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3

Hang believers... Burn them at the stake!

4

I've recently noticed some posts by people who don't meet the criteria of agnostic or atheists saying god loves you so much and crap like that. If that is going to be accepted on here I 'm just going to find another group. I just read some posts by rickarto. He must think he's on here to convert people or something. I enjoyed the site for the 2 weeks or so I was here but I'm just going to leave.

Did you report any of these people?

Don't leave. There are other rooms on here besides "Religion and Spirituality", such as news, music, politics. I, for one, never want to go to La la Land- and walk on "streets of purest gold"; the glare would be hard on the eyes, and the metal would be hard on the boots too. I prefer Nature and green grass.

3

Oh hell no..Fb is overwhelmed with them..can't an atheist get safe place?..after they have their Churches..

3

I don't mind debate. But I thought this place wasn't for debate.

5

To each their own. as long as we can keep discussions and debates meaningful and respectful, I won't recoil. there was once a time when tribes followed whatever they wanted and did not try to convert anyone to their own faith. I think as agnostics or free thinkers, we can be better than the others, and try to find balance and understanding. let the religious websites be exclusive, we can be inclusive, share our knowledge and refrain from bigotry here. I do know what you mean though, I think most of us here did not join this site with the intention of being born again lol.

5

In answer to your question, I am so far past religion, I don't care about theists. If no thinking person answers them, they will get tired and go away. If they don't "get tired", it will mean nothing to me, because I am not looking for them.

That is how I treat Baptists, who are really the only Christian fundamental cult left who is antagonistic to everyone.

3

it's up to them

3

Personal opinion is that they should stay on their own forums or join forums created in which believers and nonbelievers can discuss things.
I did not join this site to have to worry about believers coming on here and antagonizing those of us who want civil discourse with those of like mind.
Just my opinion.

4

I joined for refuge as well. I don't know what theists would want out of engaging with us. if we can't get rid of them, I can only hope that the ones here are secretly harboring doubts and are willing to hear us out until they deconvert.

whenever someone is getting obnoxious here you can always report them ... & subsequently block them.

5

I was startled to come across a "believer" on this site. Are there lots of them? Why are they here? To discuss science? I am suspicious of their motives. I have never met a believer who was truly respectful of my atheism.

You have lived a very sheltered life then. I know lots of 'believers' in something, even if it is energy who could care less what I think and never force it on anyone. There are about 10 degrees of theists, most of which are so relaxed they don't follow what the church demands, then you have the rabid, really scary types... whom you simply side-step as you can generally see them coming. Most Catholics could care less about anything religious and just want answers to everything else. Most people now days are simply 'metaphysical' and do not believe in a 'god' per se', but something they cannot understand fully - they are mostly agnostic, yet may still 'claim' to be a believer. The percentage of red-neck cultish zealots is as small as Trump's following of rag tag believers that he is their new messiah character who will make America great again. Most people in this country will 'claim' to be a Christian, yet nary a 10th of them gives a rats ass about practicing it. Word to the wise.

You have lived a very sheltered life then. I know lots of 'believers' in something, even if it is energy who could care less what I think and never force it on anyone. There are about 10 degrees of theists, most of which are so relaxed they don't follow what the church demands, then you have the rabid, really scary types... whom you simply side-step as you can generally see them coming and they are almost ALWAYS - THE BAPTISTS!!! Most Catholics could care less about anything religious and just want answers to everything else. Most people now days are simply 'metaphysical' and do not believe in a 'god' per se', but something they cannot understand fully - they are mostly agnostic, yet may still 'claim' to be a believer. The percentage of red-neck cultish zealots is as small as Trump's following of rag tag believers that he is their new messiah character who will make America great again. Most people in this country will 'claim' to be a Christian, yet nary a 10th of them gives a rats ass about practicing it. Word to the wise.

5

Its a free country as long as they aren't disruptive

5

I think anyone who is honest with themselves should consider themselves agnostic, since agnostic is a position of knowledge, or lack there of. A theist can be agnostic just as easily an atheist accept that religion almost requires them to believe without question, most still do question.
And thank god they do, for without questioning what you believe how would anyone change their mind?
So yes, believers should absolutely join because those who do obviously have questions and perhaps this is a place to find the answers that will finally convince them that their faith is no match for knowledge.

I like the way that you think, very logical and tolerant. Many of the theists whom I have known over the years do question their beliefs, yet do not have the courage to walk away from the church. I know that I did, and left the church back in my twenties to seek out a more scientific explanation to the way that physics, and energy itself, worked. I learned more from Einstien, than I did from the bible. I had too many questions about the science of religion and mysticism to 'accept' carte blanche what I was being told. They could not answer those questions, and I am still searching for all of the answers that I want, but I am closer to my own personal truth by leaving the Church behind - and others who join here will want that too. It is a pity that so many in this group who could be a light of wisdom to others simply choose to hate everyone instead - offhand. I pity them all. There is a 'middle' way that many people walk and should be allowed to be included, not kicked out of the country because they don't 'look' the same as all of the whities...

I agree with you and @Issa on this. If believers are here, as long as they are not trying to "hit" others with their Bible, no foul. As I mentioned in my comment and see here, believers might be here out of a curiosity about Agnosticism. And, they may not have the type of faith or give lip service to that line of thinking that says you have to be 100% sure within your faith. It is human to have doubts.

I had so many doubts, but got caught up in the helping people end of ministry to think about quitting yet. The service to people was my real desire - not the dogma, which I kicked to the curb as a teenager.

I think that most people who even go to churches now days are doing it not for the 'religious' preachy aspects, but the more charitable aspects - they like to serve humanity, period and the church provides an outlet for this in ones life that does not involve going overseas to do it.

There are lots of people who want to be 'involved' in something where there are like minded people whom they can commune with and throw back a beer, but don't want to go to a bar to meet them. Many are just lonely and want to meet people, no different than this forum. I think that the religious aspects are towards the bottom end of that need for the majority of people who attend a religious 'place'. Many people do not hang out with co-workers as that can get sticky and weird, then there are the many retired folk who are fast becoming the worlds largest demographic who have no where to go - their choices are to sit at home, join clubs, or go to church to have an active social life - no harm no foul. These people don't preach, they just don't want to be alone.

If you want to really address the elephant in the room - it is the Baptist cults, and a few other culty fundamental churches who are into terrorizing the world - everyone else just doesn't want to put forth the effort. I have been slandered and abused by many Baptists over the decades, who are just crazy and unhinged, to be blunt. They are clearly mentally ill firstly, and are just using the religion to express it.

I think that there is enough hate in the world and Donald Trump's followers are like the last vestiges of a dying breed of the churchily perverse. They have absolutely zero scruples and will do or say anything for a perceived deity, and the far religious right, but these people are most likely medicated and would not be in our purview anyway. These people stalk everyone - not just Atheists, but those whom they have perceived in their insanity have dropped off of the 'wagon' and need a good preaching to to get back on board - because them preachers need to get paid!!!!

The bottom line is that we don't need to be like them, and for those of us who are authentically 'comfortable' and secure within our own skin we can afford to be more openhearted towards these religious wanderers, rather than imitate the Donald and other bigots who just like to whine and complain about much more than just Theists. As long as there are no bibles, or intimations of bibles, or quoting of scriptures that are clearly intended to raise my hackles, then why should I care? I know who I am, so I can afford to be easy going about the presence of the 'curious', or even those who may have different ideas about historical religious figures who are not trying to sell me something. The first sign of a bible verse though and you're outahere!!

5

Oh hell No..

yes, agreed!

4

I received a message from a believer, and after checking his profile, I asked him why he was here and got the sound of crickets chirping.

I haven't seen any proselytizing yet, so my personal theory is that there must be a small percentage of religious folks who think atheists are hedonists who just can't wait to hop in the sack with any or everyone, and these poor suckers are just trying to get laid, something they probably can't do in real life. What I don't get is why you would admit on your profile that you are a believer. I mean, if you've got ulterior motives, why not lie about your beliefs, too?

the fact that they admit in their profile that they don't quite belong here, combined with an annoying persistence to convey their own theist agenda, is pointing towards trollism. my own experience.

Not a troll. Upon further review, l now believe he just doesn't know the meaning of the word "agnostic."

@Nottheonlyone I've run into a level 7 member of this group that has major issues with "science" and "atheists" In defending his positions he posted "We" (agnostics) so he apparently believes that "agnostics" are those that do not like atheists and science.

Because that makes sense.... but I don't get it.

4

As far as I am concerned - No theists! I am of the position that we are here to be united around the fact that we have already decided its bullshit. No time for foolishness anymore. If you come here to proselytize, expect to reap the whirlwind.

agreed!

5

A person can have a belief in something(s) without being religious, and without caring what you believe at all. One does not necessarily correlate to the other. There are a lot of theists who do not preach and who do not go to church, yet they 'feel' like 'believers', still - psychologically as more of a 'cultural' expectation. As a counselor, I meet lots of these people - who are sitting on the fence, because they do not know what they believe in and are disillusioned by their churches and cults. This is a very common socially acceptable thing - and they don't preach at people either. I think bigotry is wrong and that if people want to walk the other side of the line and be exposed to different ideas that they should be welcomed here, as long as they are not using this platform to preach at people. I think that your intimation Draco about all people of faith being argumentative and preachy is quite unfair and incorrect, based upon my experience.

Issa Level 5 Feb 2, 2018

"as long as they are not using this platform to preach" being the deciding factor, & so far (3 weeks in this community) i have encountered one xtian (his choice of word, not mine) only, & he is preaching.

It sucks that they are preaching at you, I really hate that.

4

Okay, but there should be a disclaimer such as: This is not a safe space for faith. Believers may encounter reality, facts, and logic. In the face, of these things theists may have to make extra effort to close their minds to reason and maintain a relationship with their imaginary friends.

JimG Level 8 Feb 2, 2018
6

They're kinda like the herpes, if you ignore them they won't go away completely, and they'll show up at just the wrong time to be annoying and unwanted.

5

I think believers should be kept out; but, I wonder how long they will stay believers once they hear views not from their "holy book"?

6

Overtly religious people make my skin crawl anymore after the direction politics has gone in this country this last year. I don't come here to feel bad.

5

I don't see the point of believers coming here, except to proselytize.

Curiosity is born into all of us. Even some religious want to learn and explore.

4

I find it mildly amusing to spot the trolls that pose questions that require you to posit a Gawd in order to discuss the ostensible premise....like sniffing out Russian trolls on FB before the elections.

3

I find it mildly amusing to spot the trolls that pose questions that require you to posit a Gawd in order to discuss the ostensible premise....like sniffing out Russian trolls on FB before the elections.

4

I find it mildly amusing to spot the trolls that pose questions that require you to posit a Gawd in order to discuss the ostensible premise....like sniffing out Russian trolls on FB before the elections.

7

I have not been aware of any believers on this website. If there are, so? For myself, I will welcome anyone who has an affinity for open discussion. If anyone comments from archaic ideas, then I will choose to ignore. Maybe the reason they are here, if there are some believers on this site, stems from a curiosity about us. I say treat them with the charity of a good humanist. I think it would be misguided and counterproductive to "flame" them. If necessary report any infractions or "hate" to the administration.

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