Agnostic.com

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Fellow agnostics, how do you feel about believers joining?

This is likely contentious, but it needs to be asked. As this is a site "...promoting universal truths and peaceful life without religion" how do you feel about people of faith joining here?

I'm no shrinking violet and I don't need the sort of safe space that so many people believe they do now, but I also don't want to have to engage with people who have been inculcated into some form of unscientific, simple-minded view of the natural world.

I joined in the belief (cough) that this was an exclusive club where I could escape from these folk - but now I find they are joining - with a view to what, I don't know although my hackles are raised.

Not only is this sort of thing wasteful of resources, but if they are here to try to convert or preach at us, that's likely to result in a dissemination to all-out flame wars in a post or two.

I didn't think this was a site to convert people from one way of thinking to another (that sort of thing is nigh-on impossible by the time we're in our 20s anyway.)

I ask because I'm interested what my fellow angostic/athiests think.

I've noted that "theists" tend to butt in to these conversations with their ignorance and that's what I came here to avoid.

I'm getting too old to argue.

Draco 6 Sep 25
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583 comments (351 - 375)

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3

I feel you...

As a former believer I can only say patience, respect and perseverence is key. They are not just here to preach, they probably have something to prove to themselves if they throw themselves into harm's way in "the lair of unbelief"...

The bible thumpers rarely hang out in the "funny cat photos" section of this app which is where you'll probably find me...

5

I agree. I don't want to be preached out by anyone about anything. Just discuss and learn.

5

I agree to some extent. Everything seems saturated by religious overtones these days and it is nice to find a place where one can escape from it for awhile. On the other hand, it may be that there are those who come here with doubts of their own. I give them credit for seeking opinions/information that is not just another validation of their own belief system. I’m trying to be generous here. Other times, I get annoyed by it.

6

As long as they can be respectful, I say yes. This place should be safe for people like me who rarely, if ever, get to speak out about their beliefs for fear of threats and social punishments. We should be respectful towards them, as well.

4

Are you scared? There can be no flame war if you do not react. Also, there is a Delete button.

There's a Delete Button??
I thought there was a 'block' button too, but I can't find it now.
Hmmm

@scurry If you have your Alert function set up ( the bell icon) to get your responses, then you can delete them.

@Spinliesel Ah yes - That I can do. Thanks 😀

@scurry scroll down to their chart with levels & labels and the block button their has red letters

@GreenAtheist thanks. 🙂

3

As I have said in previous posts....more or less, so long as fundamentalism, doesn't enter into it....who am I to argue?

RonB Level 5 Apr 25, 2018
4

Sounds like a challenge. Although I've never heard of an open-minded fundamentalist. The Christian lable is so vague, there might be some who are just curious about how we think.

The fundamentalist and crazies dare not enter because it is more than likely a "SIN" for them to converse with the "unbelieving crowd"

@LetzGetReal Trolls are a waste of time and energy!

5

I have several personallites . I'll only let my agnostic one come here.

accentuate the positive....medicate the negative

6

One of the tenets of this group seems to be the openness to multiple ideas about the world.. religion and their acolytes can have their say in my world as long as they listen as much as they speak...

blzjz Level 7 Apr 28, 2018

A noble sentiment, but....when was the last time you’ve known a theist to listen to anything but their own white noise?

@Azatheist I would be sure to lose my patience in a one way argument but I can always turn them off here when I get bored...

@blzjz good point.

THE USA welcomes all religions, belief systems, and races.

@okiestache I am a protector of humanity. That is all that is required. I will try to save the human race, not only humans that believe a certain way or are a certain color. Whether you realize it or not, due to the climate change and pollution of the planet, humans are an endangered species.

@okiestache the group religion and spirituality is used by atheists to torment anyone who is not atheist. I quit that group because of what goes on in there. Spirituality means you believe in a higher power. That is NOT atheist. Religion means you believe dogmatically in that fake man in the sky. Why would atheists have a room like that, and have agnostics.com as the name of their community. Agnostics just aren't sure there is or isn't a god. I have looked up the definitions so I knew.

9

Well it all depends on what direction you want the site to go in. Allowing believer will start heated debates. Some members may be turn off by that. Me personailty I'll just burn them...

12

Why would they want to? My interest in what they think or why is ZERO. Do they see themselves as ( Somebody has to keep an eye on those godless bastards ) a spy? How amusing. I suspect they will find themselves out of their league quickly and drop out.

i never realized what I was getting into. I thought it was a place that was liberal and realized that a believe system is the personal right of all people/ Boy was I shocked.WHAT YOU PROCLAIM this community is so DIFFERENT THAT YOU WANT IT TO BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE COMMUNITY DEFINED DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU WANTED IT TO BE.

@AntaresRose Would you please go back over that statement with proper caps and punctuation so I can understand what you are trying to say? In case it's meaningful or relevant?

@ForTheBirds My prior post means just what it says. A belief system is personal choice guaranteed by our Constitution Just as Atheists are accepted as non believers, in America we are expected to co-exist and honor all personal beliefs. No human on this earth has the freedom to tell another how they should believe, or what they can say, what gender they choose to marry. All are personal rights and choices of humanity. Being part of humanity gets you accepted with me. That is my only requirement. That is America's requirement. Even in this group, their are continual slurs about any belief that is not Atheist. However, all atheists will be the first to say they are not racist or bigoted. I have been persecuted, stalked, and left groups over continual harassment. i respect a human's right to be themselves above personal choices that cause upheaval in this agnostic community. Essentially many members that consider Atheism as the only way, deny others their government given right. I back this up with the reality that all belief or non belief systems cannot be scientifically proved or disproved. As fa as i am concerned, some don't practice what they state. If your choice is atheism, that is your right as a human living in America. If you are something other then atheist, neither is of concern to me. I am no one's judge and jury. As long as you leave me alone, I will return the same. As an activist for the human race, I may not agree with your choices, but I honor and respect your right to exist and live as what makes you happy. I do not think we have the right to ban anyone regardless of their personal choices. As an activist for humanity, I say leave all personal choices that we disagree accepted as members. If you do not like them, block them, don't go to their groups, but let them have their choices. I left rooms and blocked people over hard nosed hatred for humans because their choices are different. It is not the way America exists. I have had Atheists tell me the whole world will be all Atheist someday. Humans have brains and there is much diversity in how they all live their lives. That will never change. Humans will always differ. Atheists are a minority just as Christians beliefs. There are probably more Muslims in the world population. I am willing to give any human their rights to choose, but not to be thrown out or bullied because they don't believe the same as me. Should we boil all Christians in oil as Rome did to entertain at one time? Shouldn't we have evolved to freedom of choice? This is an old post to be called on. Most know my philosophy. I do not know who you are, but what I said in my prior comment was easy to understand and this is more harassment. i don't even post or comment in this group because of this bullying. i have not nor do i intend to spend my life convincing someone my way is the only way. I do not debate and I do not bully.

@ForTheBirds I read your BIO. It is filled with hate. You seem to think you have been singled out and punished. My life was worse than yours. i had not a decent childhood or marriage. I have been abused. i blame no one but myself. i do not hold hatred because hatred causes severe illnesses. No wonder you have been sick so much. I would advise you to accept only positive energy. Negative energy drains the body. I do nightly meditations to remove negativity. I would advise you to also. I also have struggled with chronic depression my whole life. I am 71 years old and I have learned to get on with it and cope.

@AntaresRose OH FER SHIT'S SAKE. A request for clarification is not an attack. A little thin skinned, are you? My bio is filled with hate? Nope. Seems like you are, though. Maybe a 2 week meditative retreat is in order.

@ForTheBirds listen freedompath fuck off.

@ForTheBirds I owe you nothing. you need to take care of you. now prepare to vanish. you are contacting me over an old post from a group I quit long ago. You are harassing. No one not a man nor a god can intimidate me. You got that? i got myself in a great space.. You are jealous. you are about to get blocked.

11

I can't see any good reason to allow theists onto an atheist dating service; defeats the purpose. I'm here because I know I don't want a relationship with a theist. I would have thought that's why we're all here.

Were I a Christian, I probably wouldn't want to see atheists on Christian Mingle, either.

absolutely with you. why would we want this site, this community soiled by delusionists?

@walklightly precisely

your welcome and sign up does not deny anyone.

4

To be an Atheist is making a statement about Religion. It is your religion. Whatever their intentions are if they are going to try and win conversions ROR (Rots of Rocks) Most Religious Scholars cannot defend what they preach. That you are told to believe is the end all of their statements before the collection comes around. It a one day job that provides a nice income and place to reside. Don't call me on a Friday night was one of the asides they are famous for quoting.

Religion is to have a belief in some form or Organized Religion. My Belief is not to believe and there are followers of this Organization who are in agreement with this. I choose to not believe and am in support of all who follow that belief.

@okiestache I agree. Atheism is not a religion by the definition of an atheist. It is a belief system for me and I honor that. Religion is dogmatic.

@BettyColeman Atheism: I believe to not believe. Sholom or Shalom is a greeting of Peace for which every country has one special statement that is acceptable to all regardless of race, color or creed. Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays made it big for the Southern Christian Leadership. Lets Flip the Bird, give the Optical Salute or shuck out the Right Hand at a Rally which is not religious but makes a moment recognizable. Kneeling instead of standing is in no way disrespectful and has been recognized for eons. centuries, customs, formal ceremonies, as a totally acceptable venue of respect until?

@Nevermind345 i do not want to get into this. I am aware of this, but prefer to it as a personal choice, not to be shoved down any human's throat.

@okiestache I am for all of humanity and I don't give a rat's ass what you want you to believe. Do you not get that. You will NEVER get everyone on this earth to be all atheists. I am only concerned with humanity's quality of life, I do not want to tell them how to live.

@BettyColeman But doesn't it concern you the damage that religion has done and continues to do through out the world. We could talk about the crusades, the inquisition, missionaries who tried their best to destroy local culture, the oppression and subjugation of women. The method to control the masses by ' accepting their lot in life because it is gods will'. And frankly if I belonged to a tennis club with as much pedophilia as the christian churches have been accused of, I would distance myself from that club pretty damn quick. Accepting what people believe is a cop out. They should be challenged. And we need to fight to keep separation of church and state. So maintain the rage!

5

With all due respect in my opinion your question is wrong. Atheist are the true believers. Faithless are those who seek refuge in religious congregations. Atheist tailor their own faithsuit made from selected faithal fabrics and lined with fine faithal tissue. Whereas the followers of religions get a faith off the shelf regardless of their individual needs. One faith fits all!
An atheist's faith in life and nature is far more nuanced and subtle. We come without an owner's manual, we script it. Welcome!!!

i can't see anything wrong in the question "how do you feel about believers joining?", apart from the fact that a question, any question in itself can not be wrong.
i prefer to trust in my senses, my intelligence & nature, & i say TRUST, not believe. i am a non-believer par excellence, & willing to categorize myself for the sake of this site as an atheist.

@walklightly thank you for your feedback ... I consider myself a true believer, an atheist believer par excellence ... I just don't believe in gods, angels, demons and consorts ... I believe in nature whose existence I am unwilling to deny .. But then I must admit I don't believe in nations and states etc. and they do exists. So this is a different type of disbelief, should probably be non-belief

I shall not concede that my belief in nature and the laws thereof as far as I can fathom them are of any lesser nature than the beliefs of those who need spiritual crutches, I.e. Religions churches, robes and pews.

@PontifexMarximus, what you call belief in nature is plainly the observation & acknowledgment of nature's power.
in my view knowledge renders belief redundant. belief is only required if evidence is lacking.

@walklightly I am still pretty ambivalent whe it comes to the strict differentiation between belief and the observations. When I look at the cloud free night sky I enjoy the view but don't really understand the details of what I am looking at. I have only very vague notions of escape velocities, black holes, quazars ... I just enjoy it. I often this that there could be other laws of physic at work in a black hole. I classify my incomplete knowledge and inability to comprehend as "belief". I read in absolute awe about people who understand this and can talk about this with great confidence.

@LetzGetReal Linguistic background is the key. I was exposed to German as my primary language. Usually to questions that might be answered in English with I think German employs "glauben which means both believe and faith. The German equivalent for 'pagan is "Heide" which induce all who do not believe in any divinity.
I would even argue that scientist believe in nature which leads them to formulate hypotheses and ultimate the experiments that confirm the initial speculative assumptions or not.
If they just loved nature ... Why investigate? I think/believe that they are driven by the belief that they can find out.

Thank you for clarifying that you are ELS (English as Second Language) as this may explains why your claim warrants a rather profound face-palm. I am guessing (hoping) you are simply suffering from a subtle linguistics interpretation error.

Let's define a few words so you can understand how your statement ranks soundly in the whelm of nonsensical.

Faith by definition is belief without evidence.

As all supernatural claims, the foundation of religion, can not be demonstrated, religions peddling the supernatural are based on faith.

In the domain of the faithful, "revealed Truth" usually noted as "truth" is defined as knowledge obtained by a divine awareness given to them by their creator or in other words, whatever a theists thinks his god wants him to know or believe based on faith (again, belief without evidence) is "truth".

I am guessing you may not realize it is widely accepted (especially among the faithful) that your term "true believers" is equivalent in meaning to "Faith Based believers"

With this foundation let's examine your assertions:

"Atheist are the true believers."

No. Atheist means one who does not find sufficient evidence to support the positive god claim. There is no positive "belief" claim associated with an atheist. Let me give you a simple example. Off is not a television channel, Not collecting stamps is not a hobby.

when we replace a few words in your assertion with the meanings of those words we are left with:
Those who do not accept faith (belief without evidence) in the positive assertion of a god are the ones who accept faith (belief without evidence).

"Faithless are those who seek refuge in religious"

No. Faithful seek refuge in religion as religion is founded on faith. Your claim is equivalent to stating people who do not swim seek refuge in deep swimming pools.

"An atheist's faith in life and nature is far more nuanced and subtle."

No. I am an atheist. I do not base my life on faith (belief without evidence) assertions. I will follow the evidence regardless of whether or not I wish something to be true.

"Welcome!!!"

No! For what? Me having to wast my time pointing out how logically offensive I found you flawed assertion.

6

I'm against letting them join. In fact, I thought this site existed to give agnostics and atheists a place to gather away from believers.

There are plenty of places where believers can mingle with us, such as Facebook. Please don't ruin this place!

Go back and read the rules to join. All beliefs are welcome.

Too bad.

@AtlGeekWoman yes for the ignorant.

9

Anyone would think this place was overrun with God botherers, demanding that we change our ways. Where exactly is this happening? Are we on the same forums here?

I've been accused of being a theist on here, simply for being able to see some good in religion (the comfort it provides with respect to mortality, for example.) But I'm very much a non-believer. I don't deny the possibility of the universe being created by an external intelligence. I do rule out the possibility of a benevolent God who watches over us and steers things in the right direction for the righteous. There's too much evidence out there that this just isn't the case.

So I don't think theists are a problem on here at this point. I'm not saying they couldn't become one. Think of it like a gay bar: everyone should be welcome, as long as they come in with the right attitude. Walk in there and start spouting off about homosexuality is wrong, and you should expect to be shown the door.

you are commenting like an agnostic.

I've run into a few that attempt to diminish science (fact based demonstrable claims and observations and promote faith. I've run into a few that assert faith (belief without evidence) is a personal avenue to truth. Faith is the foundation of religion and for me those that promote faith over reality have crossed the agnostic/atheist boarder towards the dark side of superstition/religion.

12

They have plenty of their own sites where they can preach to the choir. I'd prefer that they leave us alone here.

Deb57 Level 8 May 7, 2018

religion and spirituality to me is not an atheist room, but that is who runs that room. I quit, and happily never go there. Why don't you have a room for atheists and one for agnostics? They mean 2 different things and to me neither are spiritual.

what room do you claim as only atheistic?

This whole site is for us. Religious people have plenty of social networks of their own.

@Deb57 then why do you have a religion and spirituality room? that is not athisistic. The very name agnostics. com means those who believe or aren't sure they disbelieve but aren't sure. you need to change the community to atheists.com. The religion and spiritual room is misrepresented, Spirituality means you believe their is a higher power but not a dogmatic god. So you gve the community the wrong name and create a room no one can get along in. The definitions do not match atheists.

@BettyColeman Actually, agnosticism is a type of atheism. An atheist is someone who rejects the claim that any gods exist. An agnostic is someone who doubts or has not committed to a belief in any gods, which also denotes a lack of belief. Since atheists and agnostics find themselves in a minority in the world, and often experience anything from marginalization to outright execution for not conforming to the beliefs popular in a given part of the planet, religion and spirituality tend to be hot topics for us. You could call it a survival tool, perhaps.

@Deb57 And just what is 'Religion and Spirituality' as a room? not atheist or agnostic. I am telling you I spent time looking up definitions to some of your labels. If I am an atheist, I should not be a skeptic. Ah, you people want your cake and eat it too. What you say makes no logical sense. I read definitions for agnostics. They are NOT atheists. They don't know what is the truth.

@Deb57 I am not religious.

what a disgusting remark . I accept everyone as they are and I have nothing to preach except your belief is your own choice.

@BettyColeman Whatever. If you want to know what topics are discussed in the section called Religion and Spirituality, I suggest you take a look for yourself. I'm not the moderator. If you don't like my remarks, feel free not to read them. I'm not judgmental, and I don't enjoy associating with judgmental people. Please go pick on somebody else.

@Deb57 I was in it a long time. All in that room fight. I do not live my life. I try to fix problems humanity; I am not interested in ignorant, bullying abuse. I quit and do not miss the hypocrites in tat room. I am done for the night unless I do some posts

@Deb57 True theyt have their own rooms, but too many of them feel the uncontrollable urge to proselytize, because all of us atheist are going to hell and they have to save us.
even though we do not believe in any of it.
those types should be asked to leave.

@kanawah how can an atheist go to hell when he doesn't believe in one? Each individual creates their own reality. As that is so, one should quit allowing others to invade their space.

@BettyColeman I am an atheist and a humanist but I cannot abide religion because it oppresses and divides people. I also consider myself spiritual because i can be moved to tears by a piece of music or a wonderful experience or by simply closing my eyes and breathing in a beautiful rain forest. I am overwhelmed with awe at the very existence of the universe so please don't tell me I'm not spiritual. I find it in the connection I have with those I love including my dog and trees.

7

There is a capacity to block people but I have only used it twice I find on the whole that this is a respectful site and there are places where people can talk about semantics of atheism and agnosticism that you don't have to visit if you don't want to '

So if we are a NAZI or a KKK. but an atheist, and if we run around with ar15s we are acceptable because we are atheists.

5

I can in real life and in this community as well as the Facebook community, and the IMVU 3D Social Media Community have any number of conversations and not chat about religion, belief system, or racism. I am an activist. I fight causes for humanity, animals wild or tame, water life, and our planet. I fight for humanity, not against it. As I said before, your information when I looked into joining welcomes all beliefs. After I joined, person after person has attempted to put some kind of label on me. I do not run around in real life labeled. I do not go to church. I do not discuss my belief system in any conversation. I either am accepted that way or I leave. Now they have all these fights. When they start fighting in a room, I quit and I don't join again. My peace of mind is more important than trying to convince anyone what they should or shouldn't believe. As an activist for humanity, I feel I do not have the right to judge anyone. I say you going Hitler in here? Kill off everyone who isn't a disbeliever? I think they will invade as undercover and still their will be fights. The Simple thing is to allow those who are whatever to have a room they feel comfortable in. That way then you don't need to be in the Christian room fighting and the atheists can have their own room where they are happy. I will go to neither. Simply because I respect all humanity's rights and I hate negativity.

7

Is there a test you have to pass before you are allowed on here? I seem to have missed it somehow.....

The first question we are all asked is a poor leading query: how certain are you there are zero alleged gawds ? My answer is 100% but many eqivocate brainwashed by the false xian Webster definition of the non-word gibberish gods UNdeserving of capitalization YHWH Jeehobah Jeebush Ghostholes are fictional names god is an irrational title

8

I never joined Agnostics.com for it to be an echo chamber for people who share the same views as me. What's the point of that? I want to leave each session on here with something to think about... it's called growth. I'm very open to talking to theists. They don't often give me food for thought, in fact they more often than not re-inforce negetive sterotypes.

One of my favorite drinking buddies is a Anglican Priest - we concentrate on the things that unite us rather than the clear water over religion. You'd be surprised at how many things we agree on.

4

As long as people are respectful, I'm ok with that.

It took me 3-4 years to fully abandon religion, a place like this to discuss my thoughts and feelings would have been awesome as I was exploring what I'd be like without Jesus.

11

I would recommend ignoring the people that annoy you and follow the ones that you can converse with.

8

Its a free country. I'm not even sure I belong here. I'm not athiest; I neither believe, nor dis-believe. I question, ponder, research, and believe in live and let live. I have yet seen evidence that God exists, but I haven't seen evidence that He doesn't.

Not that I'm an expert, but I think if you want to be here, then you belong. 🙂
I think we all question, or have questioned at some point, and we are free do too so here without being judged.
Welcome.

I am glad to meet you and I welcome you as a member of humanity. I have no strings added to that. Welcome. Nice to meet you.

I think you are closer to home than you know. Please read the link I supplied. It may just describe you. If it does then welcome home.

[en.wikipedia.org]

6

I agree with you, Draco! I'm weary of theists and their babble. Keep them out, please.

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