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Fellow agnostics, how do you feel about believers joining?

This is likely contentious, but it needs to be asked. As this is a site "...promoting universal truths and peaceful life without religion" how do you feel about people of faith joining here?

I'm no shrinking violet and I don't need the sort of safe space that so many people believe they do now, but I also don't want to have to engage with people who have been inculcated into some form of unscientific, simple-minded view of the natural world.

I joined in the belief (cough) that this was an exclusive club where I could escape from these folk - but now I find they are joining - with a view to what, I don't know although my hackles are raised.

Not only is this sort of thing wasteful of resources, but if they are here to try to convert or preach at us, that's likely to result in a dissemination to all-out flame wars in a post or two.

I didn't think this was a site to convert people from one way of thinking to another (that sort of thing is nigh-on impossible by the time we're in our 20s anyway.)

I ask because I'm interested what my fellow angostic/athiests think.

I've noted that "theists" tend to butt in to these conversations with their ignorance and that's what I came here to avoid.

I'm getting too old to argue.

Draco 6 Sep 25
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583 comments (101 - 125)

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5

Let them join. It might be a good way to get them to move from certainty to questioning.

And for me, vice-versa. The very definition of being agnostic must leave open a deeply self-searching for the truth. If you won't listen to possibilities, then call yourself an atheist.

4

The question is why would they want to?

4

Why would a believer join an atheist site other than s(he) has doubts about their brainwashing from birth until now and their subsequent delusions.

Many religions instruct - even demand - that they witness to and attempt to convert to their religion. A website of "lost souls" to save could be quite enticing to some.

12

Part of my conversion to the truth was helped along by healthy debate. Some folks think it a waste of time, but while a staunch born-againer, sane and logical argument points would stick in my craw. So a point to remember: when engaging someone of faith in a discussion, keep it clean, respectful, and as insightful as possible. A good mixture of logic and philosophy 101 helps a lot.

So - let'm in. If they're abusive and don't want mature conversation, punt them.

I hate being wrong. My response was "Hell no!" but you've convinced me there is room here for "believers" - at least of a certain type.

4

If they're theists, why would they want to come here other than to lead us out of the dark? There are plenty of xian boards out there, if they need to show off their superstitions.

I agree with you, why would they come here. It would be like a celestial navigator wanting to join the 'Flat Earth Society'

7

It's not about having a safe space. This is primarily a dating site, not a debating site. When I'm looking for someone like myself that I might want to get to know a little better, it's distracting to have to filter out the creationists. Most of them aren't here to find someone, they're her to stir up trouble and possibly ruin the site for others so it becomes irrelevant. No, believers shouldn't be allowed here. You won't find me on "Christian Mingle".

4

I just joined thinking this site would be for like minded individuals. If I see a lot of believers crowding it I guess I'll just go back to obscurity

3

Hard to keep out. If they start proselytizing, curb-stomp 'em (metaphorically speaking). Don't let them drive you away; defend your space. Honestly, I didn't know that the primary reason for this site was for dating, not that it's a problem!

If I don't like the drama BS, that is what the channel changer or my feet are for. There are more worthy things to masturbate to than getting into pissing match with jesus freaks.

5

I have no problem with it.

Specifically, i don't have a problem as long as they don't start preaching to me, or telling me that I'm gonna go to Hell because i "have doubts"..as i said, i am AGNOSTIC,and by that i am saying that i just don't have the answer to whether there is a God or not because of no definitive proof, but i am not Atheist for same reason, i have no proof there ISN'T, either, but i don't go along with organized religion.

3

Are you not a 'Believer' by holding to your own pseudo relgious beliefs? In my mind by holding yourself up as the 'Anti- Religionyou are identifying yourself as a Religion. And finally are you not as guilty as religions when you hold yoursef up to the same exclusivity that you rail against in religions?

Ruadh Level 3 Dec 17, 2017

Hi - is this one of those "believers" you were talking about? Found one! Found one! LMAO

3

Fine with me as long as they don't crap on the rug while they're here.

We only want house-trained delusionals joining!

3

Ask the people who set up the site and included belief options.

Who here has actually experienced this dreaded, "preaching"?

4

I'm with you I get enough harassment at home and work from these people. Being here has been therapeutic for me as I don't always feel hunted by a bunch of pack animals that refuse to believe they're animals, giving them licence to act like one without feeling remorse.

That's so awful. One of the things this site has shown me is what an awful time you atheists have in the US. Not quite as bad as in the countries where you can get killed for being one, but still pretty bad! Come over here to England! We have a much easier time of it.

4

There are many online forums where believers and nonbelievers slug it out. That's fine, but the flaming and attacking is alienating. I joined here so I could hear the voices of non believers, the agreements, disagreements, common views and dissenting ones. I don't mind if fellow non believers disagree with me, or have different views, but I really don't want to read the same old religious arguments that I have heard for decades dredged up here. There's a kind of shared consciousness here, despite differing views, and that's not easy to create in an online forum, and I think it works really well as it is. That's my ten cents worth.

What rules would you devise to eliminate these people during moderation. I have heard that the "DOCTOR WHO" site is very good at moderation.

3

Only if they are serious about wanting information. NO threat’s, trying to convert us, or lies. I’m willing to have a philosophical talk.

Unfortunately it is often NOT information they want but reassurance over the potentially very threatening things that can happen like death. Would you deny them that reassurance? remember you cannot prove what death will be like - not the last time I tried anyway.

4

" Too old to Argue" ?. Can I please point out that you do not HAVE to argue. You just have to be right. If you are getting tired then you are doing something wrong. It is possible to view each conversation with a religious person as an opportunity for improving your responses and getting THEM to change their minds. Please google Jennifer Hancocks website to find out " How to win an argument without actually arguing" .

One technique is to give up debating - which implies TWO sides when there are multiple sides . Just call it discussion and keep looking for things upon which you do agree. Plenty of other contentious points will arise though.

Here in Henley on Thames UK we have a Meetup group called " Skeptics and believers" where the two sides amicably meet to have stimulating and refreshing discussions. 20 minute 'primer' talks from one side or the other followed firstly by group Q&A and then smaller group table discussions. It is sometimes difficult to get people to leave. This is the way that society should evolve. Example of a talk " Is logic and reason the only way to know?"

Please remember that religious people, by their very nature, never give up, never go away always want to convert you. We will have to wait for them to die and just make their last years comfortable. Please do not wear yourself thin though.

"You just have to be right." I think a lot of what I believe and articulate but all I have to do is be right. that would be nice. never will happen. I am just hoping to a non shithead who thinks well.

4

Part of me says "hell no!", and part of me says "whatever". They can join, which strikes me as pointless, but the moment they 'start', gotta bounce 'em. I live in South Georgia. I get enough of that bullshit in my daily life. I joined this site to get away from that garbage, and it's been nice interacting with like-minded (for the most part) folk. I'm going to leave it to Admin to weed out the religutards.

I used to live in Valdosta. you have my 'not prayers". lol. I am still in texas tho so fuck me. the god botherers suck.

5

Religion in the way I learned it (fundamentalism) wrecked my life and mental health. I know this sounds religious but de-converting "saved" me. If I could slowly wean away at a fundamentalist and make them more "liberal" or help another de-convert it would be a moral action to me. This is to be balanced with the frustration that I may experience throughout the process.

I've de-converted (face-to-face) a few Catholics that are much healthier after being un-saved from the darkness of superstitious dogma (fear of burning in hell forever). Usually this takes dozens of hours over months to set them free. I have doubts this online form is going to free many theists. But if that is the outcome for some, I (reluctantly) agree it may be wroth the bother.

4

I like how the admins have set this up. New members can't post anything without a review. Trolls can usually be identified and booted based on their initial activity on the site. Nothing can prevent a believer from creating an account, but they can't do much damage to the community with the safeguards currently in place. Does anyone feel the current safeguards are insufficient?

I just had a rather heated back and forth with a level 7 user who openly has issues with atheists and science. Once you make it past level 5 . . .

4

no thanks I live in a very religious often proseletysing wee town this is a nice getaway for me a breath of fresh air.

3

I see a lot of people mentioning simply not wanting to engage with, argue with, or debate with believers.

We learned in parenting class to ignore unwanted behaviors and they will go away. I assume it works for people to, right?

Not particularly. Just wait until you get old enough to need supplementary Medicare insurance! You'll have salesmen calling you all the way into midnight, and won't let up, even when you say you already have it and don't need it. They'll just keep calling. That's how many Xtians act.

4

I don't think they'll be joining for the conversation. It's more likely they'll be coming so that they can convert us. Personally I have better ways to spend my time.

Rest assured, it won't be me.

5

I too have retired from the argumentative life. A good two sided sharing of the facts and a friendly we agree to disagree is fine with me. Anyone is welcome, just be civil, respectful of each other's thinking and don't take themselves to seriously. It does take all kinds to make a world with the emphasis on kind.

I don't claim to be a member of MENSA- but I won't argue with a moron either.

5

In answer to your question, I am so far past religion, I don't care about theists. If no thinking person answers them, they will get tired and go away. If they don't "get tired", it will mean nothing to me, because I am not looking for them.

That is how I treat Baptists, who are really the only Christian fundamental cult left who is antagonistic to everyone.

4

I joined for refuge as well. I don't know what theists would want out of engaging with us. if we can't get rid of them, I can only hope that the ones here are secretly harboring doubts and are willing to hear us out until they deconvert.

whenever someone is getting obnoxious here you can always report them ... & subsequently block them.

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