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Fellow agnostics, how do you feel about believers joining?

This is likely contentious, but it needs to be asked. As this is a site "...promoting universal truths and peaceful life without religion" how do you feel about people of faith joining here?

I'm no shrinking violet and I don't need the sort of safe space that so many people believe they do now, but I also don't want to have to engage with people who have been inculcated into some form of unscientific, simple-minded view of the natural world.

I joined in the belief (cough) that this was an exclusive club where I could escape from these folk - but now I find they are joining - with a view to what, I don't know although my hackles are raised.

Not only is this sort of thing wasteful of resources, but if they are here to try to convert or preach at us, that's likely to result in a dissemination to all-out flame wars in a post or two.

I didn't think this was a site to convert people from one way of thinking to another (that sort of thing is nigh-on impossible by the time we're in our 20s anyway.)

I ask because I'm interested what my fellow angostic/athiests think.

I've noted that "theists" tend to butt in to these conversations with their ignorance and that's what I came here to avoid.

I'm getting too old to argue.

Draco 6 Sep 25
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583 comments (51 - 75)

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6

I feel that Catholic priests should be put to death. Anyone else think they deserve this?

No ....rapist priests should be confined, organs harvested, blood transfused, experimental Guinea Pigs and wealth confiscated to pay their victims....help heal our species not given a quick trip to their alleged purgatory

I think that nobody should be put to death but that all people should answer to the law equally, whether you have the shield of religious power or political power or financial power should never be a reason to get out of jail free.

4

I'm a sensitive guy. I know that about myself. I can't take being berated for my beliefs for very long unless there's logic involved, and I too came here to avoid the usual mindless blather. I need a place where I can talk about this kind of thing without being surrounded by hateful people who convince themselves they're superior through faith.

I was 'followed' on this site by a woman who, hey, "100% believes there's a god" etc. etc. Now if I just stumble across someone like that, I'm not going to block them, but if they're going to follow me out of the blue, I'm going to go with my experience and say she's a troll. Immediately blocked.

10

I just blocked a believer as he couldn't take a polite no. My answer has changed from no to HELL NO.

MizJ Level 8 Jan 19, 2019

Yes it's their alleged hell let them worry about knashing of teeth an searing eternal fire that does not kill pain but perpetuates painful punishment for us Atheists as our only religious crime is condemnation of their evil alleged bible gawd Jehobah yhwh Jesua Nasoret ghostholes alleged vaginal virgin Miriam

@GreenAtheist Do all "believers" believe in hell?

@Wildflower some people invent their own religions sort of like a faith buffet eating only certain offerings from the heaven bribes and hell threatening rapist priests

3

Come on......they're worth a laugh surely

9

Given that a big premise of this site seems to be dialog, if they are open to the ideas of others, if they engage in an open and respectful exchange, sure we should welcome them. As an ex-Christian (fundamentalist cult) I've had amazing conversations with genuine folks who are still in it, maybe for reasons similar to the ones that made it difficult for me to transition. There are Christians (albeit too few) who actually get Christ's teachings and are trying to change their religion rather than leave it. It's to everyones benefit to know and encourage these people. There should be a way to censure those who's only agenda is to convert. In my experience it's pretty easy to tell the difference. I'm new here so perhaps such a mechanism exists.

You talk like Pinnochio is real ...there is no such thing as a christ and the sooner we all stay on that page the sooner doctors won't be murdered for being gynecologists and liars replacing biology teachers in public schools

It's not about converting you enabler our Atheism is about compassion for living victims and preventing religious murders over 6 million per year of women dying denied life saving abortions or deadly disease preventing condoms....take your dialogue error to the World Health Organization and spew that crap there where doctors are burying more people than curing syphilis

Encouraging delusions is what you are saying drinking blood and eating skin makes you immortal making life disposable and heaven bribes acceptable hell threats the enforcement of faux ethics

"christ's teachings": LMAO!

@GreenAtheist What the fuck? You talk like all "believers" are identical and follow the same biased doctrine. Perhaps you should be a little more accepting of others like you want others to be accepting of you. I thought atheists were open minded.

@Wildflower I am married to a believer and embrace my neighbors with kindness and tolerance....here inside agnostic dot com many of us have been greatly harmed by religion especially inside our open minds....you falsely assume we should be open to forever burning in hell for our repudiation of faith....and you conform to the false xian definition of Atheism and Atheist ...there are zero believers out there telling the violent misogynistic genocidal truth about religious books ....it's your mind appears to be closed to such millennia of death and injustice

6

I think there is common ground. MY own reading of existentialist philosophy well as The Bible has lead me to want to throw in with the Gnostics. The Gnostics hold to a an Early Christian amalgamation Juadic, Christian, Buddhist and Zoroastrian philosophies that were products of the first era of multiculturalism in ancient times. The existentialists share many views with these precept, most particularly Karl Jung who held that we have to align our beliefs (Freud's "id" with our rational minds to maintain our integrity. As a retired scientist I agree that the scientific method of using evidence and reason is the only way to communicate and connect with others. All I cn do is capitulate to someone else's beliefs. We have to accept that we all have beliefs even though we cannot compel others to hold the same beliefs. My reading of history is that organized religions have disconnected from their original beliefs by way of the IMperial Model (Catholicism) o the the BUsines Model(Protestants). I have come to the conlclusion that my own disconnection form organized religion is sourced in these disconnections. There are movement afoot, mostly in Catholicism, to reconnect with the original teachings. Reform Judaism seeks to do the same by reconnecting to the original Old Testament. The Gnostics seem to cruise in this spiritual borderland.
I have happend upin the Nag Hammadi scriptures, that were banned as heretical in ancient imes. These are the translations of the Dead Sea Scrolls. As these translations wer e published, scholars in Africa, Germany and France recognized the ideas. As irturns out, rather than being destroyed, they were squirreld awya in multiple locations to preserve them. Theie views are iconoclastic and tightly focussed on personal enlightment. They are antitheticl to organizing a powerful church, and so were condemnd as heresy. It is notable that the research and preservation oft this material has fallen mostly on thr Jung INstitute and some theological programs such as Princeton University. As this group's name includes Agnostics, there is room here. Personally, based on my own experiences, it is impossible for me to throw into Atheism, though I am interested in Atheistic constructs.

4

It’s called Agnostic.com, not AtheistsOnly.com.

I’m so fucking tired of this conversation (this is not the first time in the last year and a half).
We have kicked rude nonbelievers out, and we have polite believers as members.

How about we quit being so prejudice?

4

if they obey the rules of course they should be allowed ... otherwise we are cut from the same cloth

7

I'm against it too. The religious have many forums online, in public, in their places of worship, and in government where they can speak without anyone harassing them the way they harass us. I've come to this site so I can be free of anyone trying to convert me or threatening me with hell, or just rehashing the same ol' tired arguments. I think of this as a sanctuary from that. Let us have this one place at least.

Thank you for speaking my language. 👍😃

8

I am against it. I'm here to deal with people who don't believe in fairy tales.

You are the only alleged deity we need in here

1

Time to remove liar @TheTruthIsTrue goading us Atheists with his xian shit

6

The Community Guidelines read: "... Please note that we reserve the right to remove any post for any reason. Obviously, we want to keep the discussion as open as possible but we have limits. While we do allow members who say they're religious to join, we not allow any religious proselytisation..."

I think this is a reasonable charter which, to me, implies it hasn't needed modification since this inception.

7

What if, sometimes, the religious who come to boards like this one are not true believers but individuals who are uncertain themselves as to the iron-clad verity of their chosen superstition? Keep in mind too that most people don't choose their religion, but that it is imposed on them by family and the simple accident of geography. Some believers are simply not so sure as they’d like to pretend.
Years ago I frequented various religion chat rooms and message boards, and yes the places were rotten with my-way-or-the-highway types, full to bursting with their own unshakable confidence, but also there was a reasonable number of ostensible believers who found themselves on the fence and were struggling with the nagging notion that the pap they had been force-fed as toddlers might not be the last word. In anything.
People like that may frequent places non-believers hang out to listen and learn why other rational and intelligent people don’t believe in their mythology. I’ve seen it happen, believers throwing off the yoke of superstition and embracing freethought and rationalism. Certainly not a daily event, but it happens,

Another point, Christians respect nobody’s religion but their own, so whenever they whine about how they ‘need’ us to respect their religion, I find it helpful to remind them that they don’t respect anyone else’s...like that jackass who was killed by the tribe in the Indian Ocean... the only thing he deserves for his trouble is a Darwin award for exiting this world as an imitation-gold plated chump. Respecting other people’s beliefs is simply not in most Christian’s DNA.

5

I generally tend to make an effort to be civil to others, especially on an equal playing field, but as far as I'm concerned, any theist who intrudes upon agnostic/atheist turf is fair game.

Deb57 Level 8 Dec 29, 2018
5

I'm against censorship, but I'd really prefer that theists didn't join this site. Not sure why they'd want to other than to troll non-believers. I won't engage with them here in any kind of productive way.

Deb57 Level 8 Dec 29, 2018

@TheTruthIsTrue If it's an imaginary cliff that only you can see, then yeah, I'd prefer not hearing about it.

@Deb57 That answer is golden!

@TheTruthIsTrue I think she'd like some proof of the cliff's existence before taking your word for it...

@TheTruthIsTrue, I would be annoyed by your insistence that there is a cliff, when I can see that there is not. "Warning" people of danger that you cannot prove exists is not, by any stretch, a noble act.

8

Just out of curiosity , how would a religious group feel , about an atheist going into their places of worship and trying to convert them to non-believers . This site is a sanctuary , where we don't have to deal with Jehova's Wittnesses , or Hari Krichners or other religious folks intruding where they are not wanted . We are intelligent adults , who have already given a lot of thought to our beliefs , and are not interested in having your arguments on this topic . Please leave us in peace .

7

How do I feel? I feel tired of Trolls who come here pretending that they are religious/not religious, or something in between. Trolls that sealion our Users into wasting time with bogus questions and arguments...that is how I feel.

5

I feel the same. Personally, I scoffed and rolled my eyes. Butttt unlike the seemingly infinite amount of religion people judge my beliefs and push me away I accept it because ya know, freedom and what not?. I will say though, it does take away from the excitement of an only non religious site.

My whole idea was to get away from having to see anything religious. Good luck with that on a planet where most people believe some type of cooky religion.

3

I feel nothing

5

As long as they are respectful of our lack of belief I’m fine with them

3

Well, I would not talk to them, but they may have cool music in their library and maybe good recipes. If they can stand to be ignored completely, let them join.

4

I’m mystified as to why they even would join. To understand us better? To subvert? Still, as you mention “unscientific, simple-minded” views of the world, have you noted some of the rampant supernaturalism in our community in the guise of “spirituality?” The lines are not so clearly drawn ...

ps — Never too old to argue!

4

I wouldn't like religious people here. You can always block someone. I just ignore, but I haven't seen religious people only conservatives who I ignore.

2

treat each other in the way that peace stays,no need fight over what or what we don't believe

2

Believe? Are you saying agnostics don't believe?
I joke... hahaha... the admittance of atheism is always funny.

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