Agnostic.com

583 117

Fellow agnostics, how do you feel about believers joining?

This is likely contentious, but it needs to be asked. As this is a site "...promoting universal truths and peaceful life without religion" how do you feel about people of faith joining here?

I'm no shrinking violet and I don't need the sort of safe space that so many people believe they do now, but I also don't want to have to engage with people who have been inculcated into some form of unscientific, simple-minded view of the natural world.

I joined in the belief (cough) that this was an exclusive club where I could escape from these folk - but now I find they are joining - with a view to what, I don't know although my hackles are raised.

Not only is this sort of thing wasteful of resources, but if they are here to try to convert or preach at us, that's likely to result in a dissemination to all-out flame wars in a post or two.

I didn't think this was a site to convert people from one way of thinking to another (that sort of thing is nigh-on impossible by the time we're in our 20s anyway.)

I ask because I'm interested what my fellow angostic/athiests think.

I've noted that "theists" tend to butt in to these conversations with their ignorance and that's what I came here to avoid.

I'm getting too old to argue.

Draco 6 Sep 25
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

583 comments (126 - 150)

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

4

No, no, no. It's bad enough I have them knocking on my door.

yes, i'm the same - it's like soiling our nest, i feel.

2

Welcome one and all as far as I am concerned. I would think coming to a place where evidence is king would deter most, but some might want to see if we are plotting Armageddon. Others might want to explore doubt in a setting where they won't get preached at. As long as people are not jerks I would not vote to exclude anyone.

2

It depends. I have had intelligent conversations with more liberal believers. Historically, it was the liberal evangelicals who helped pull America put of the Great Depression. I am sure that most of the modrrn ilk would view them as heretics. In the same breath I faced off against a friend of a friend on FB. I don't accept people's judgements that I am going to hell. In this case because I defended the rights of my daughter and other women, and being accused of being a butcher and wanting to chop up his grandchildren. I always send those people to Mark 5, 1 to 7. Not a believer my self but willing to counter with their own arguments. I'm that section Mark warms hypocrites will be more harshly punished. I walked away from the argument when he proved his lack of Christian history by denying the idea of the trinity was voted upon. He said that was false and pointed to, I'll give him this credit, one of the biblical verses used by those who voted for it. So, where do I stand. If a person comes here, not to convert, but learn and question okay. Start preaching and no, need to be left behind (pun intended).

6

Why is it, that the religious never have to justify anything, it is only us who do? For them, acceptance is automatic. EXCEPT HERE. I've tried listening to their side, and found it wanting. I'll post about that another time. Those of us here, chose to be. Of that much I am sure. Now, if the religious choose to be here, by extension, they accept the 'rules', written or otherwise. If they come to argue or persuade or save, go away. I heard that already. If they come to learn, sure. Keep the BS to yourselves though, it's not going to be kindly met. Looking at a few of the comments should quickly remove any doubt about that. We have been persecuted and ridiculed no end... this is OUR forum. To speak freely, without judgment, or having to justify a damned thing. That's my take on it. I said a long time ago I won't attempt to take anyone's faith away, even if I could. They need to afford me the same respect.

4

It's very simple if they become annoying block them if everyone blocks them they're gone

That's the best bet

4

I agree 100% that I came here to get away from them, and I am too damn old to keep arguing with them. I threaten to attend church with them! Go to their church, sit right next to them! Obviously, that won't work online... But it can when it's in person. I'll say I will wear my Atheist hat too... (I don't actually have one. Yet) I have also noticed, that they often feel compelled to follow us, hunt us like the witches of Salem were, Track us down to confront us with their 'truths'... WHY? Why do they care? I think they must remove all doubters, so as to remove their own misgivings about the ridiculous nature of what they espouse. As long as we exist we can make them doubt, and they can't stand that. They HAVE to be right! Have to... or what have they been worshiping ? A silly fantasy story? That can't be. Religion is a powerful tool for controlling huge numbers of people with out firing a shot. If I had to think up a way of doing that job from scratch, I'd invent religion. Doubt, threatens that control. So the leaders say they "must go forth, convert the godless! Save them!" Oh Gwad.... save me from them.

5

I’m a theist. A believer. I’m here to learn and expose myself to another point of view. I like it here. Ive had many wonderful conversations, some religious, some not.

I only interject my beliefs when I am specifically asked or when I feel like it’s pertinent to the topic being discussed, however never in a contentious or judge mental way. Simply to share my opinion.

I have no intention to try to “convert” anyone or insult or judge or be otherwise rude or inappropriate. This is not the place and I know that.

Then welcome. Knowing your viewpoint isn't as respected here as it is elsewhere... What, exactly, do you think you might learn? If I sound suspicious, it's because I am. I've seen a lot of underhanded ways of people trying to get into my head, so that they can learn how I think, why I think it. So they can then 'fix' me. If you are not one of those, you MAY actually learn something... That's up to you and you alone. There are a lot of teachers in our ranks, I promise you. However, the vast majority won't try to kill your faith. They won't respect it, but they won't come after you to kill it either. Some may be more militant... as I have noted elsewhere, we have been hunted and persecuted. When we find one place we don't have to pay lip service to the religious, we can be a bit jealous to protect it from those hunters. I get that. And I am what I would call a moderate. I don't care that you believe.I don't care WHAT you believe. You are free to be wrong. Just let me be 'wrong' too. Do not say it is because you love me. No you don't. You don't know me. (I do not men you in the personal, but in the general) That's your deal. Just leave me out of it, and we can agree to disagree. We can still agree to basics, like killing puppies is bad. Stealing is bad. Obeying stop signs good. That's how I live. Few people in my real life know I am an a-theist. I have to hide my real self. And I bet there are a LOT of butts in the pews on any given Sunday morning who are what I call Insurance believers... They don't, really, but say better safe than sorry. Like they could fool God? Really? But they do. They go through the motions... pretending. I won't. As a kid, I was taught that being an atheist was akin to devil worship. I was evil if I didn't toe the line, and the angry vengeful god would hurl me to hell. Even my father's Unitarian church didn't protect me completely from their barbs. So forgive... it's so christian, is it not? If we are a little suspicious of your motives. I'm willing to give the benefit of doubt. For now. If you really are here to learn, then you have doubts. You would HAVE to have... So, sarcastic as it must sound by now, welcome. You were warned! If we corrupt you... you were already broken.

Well, you seem respectful and open minded so I can say welcome, but I don’t believe there are many belivers who are like you. Thanks for breaking the stereotype.

Welcome. Years ago I (as a Christian) attended witchcraft cult meetings for months because I was curious. Met some really nice open people. Never became a witch but they earned my respect with openness and acceptance. Atheist now, still always curious.

Feel free to ask anything, I have no secrets.

3

I just joined this site a few days ago but as a long time atheist, I'm fine with theists joining as long as they understand their expressions of faith will not be treated respectfully. If they can handle having their fantasies challenged then I'm fine with their inclusion.

But it's doubtful I'll be polite about it.

I like how Dawkins puts it. People always have merit, but religion does not get a free pass. If ideas are weak and unsupportable they will be dismissed. Insistence on the ridiculous will get you banned.

5

Send them to Christian mingle. No one has time for their bullshit and delusions.
I will mock and ridicule them until they leave.

Harsh, I agree with the first part, but I have met some lovely theists who are tolerant of atheists and are interested and interesting. I don’t want them on this site as I came here to run away from belivers, but I wouldn’t mock or ridicule one.

@Livia I feel dirty every time I am forced to deal with a believer pretending faux innocent belief/faith....I joined agnostic dot com for dating/courtship with an Atheist woman & getting news 1st hand from Atheists fighting theocracy where ever they may be victim of it.....there can be no justification or rationalizing away all the genocide, rape, murder of scientists and sexual mutilation of children by religions....believers who show zero remorse for their own religious heritage DO NOT BELONG HERE period

@GreenAtheist that’s the way I feel about the military and cops.

@Livia I'm a US Navy Vet never denying my resistance to the illegal invasion of Vietnam and Senator McCain was a war criminal shot down during his bombing of North Vietnamese cities....cops shoot people at will telling lies about their murders after they claim self defense from unarmed victims they shoot to death.....but more cops remain silent if not actively aiding the cover up of murderous cops....we need to demand justice and jailing all criminals in government from top to bottom

@GreenAtheist That is the best answer I ever have had. I don’t have problems with soldiers- I have a problem with the way that their young lives and sacrifice is exploited, and the way they are treated post war. No support, no money, nothing. They are taken into illegal and unjustified wars and then traumatized, wounded for life, or dead.

With cops it’s personal- they beat a member of my family to death with their bare fists. They covered it up and we lost the case we brought against the police. As per usual in such cases.

@Livia it is true most of us vets are denied compensation for the traumatic brain injuries of conductive hearing loss and tinnitus.... war is a fucking loud harmful activity not to mention the poison of Agent Orange that took one of my brother's legs and murdered millions of people billions of trees

7

The site is specific about its audience. Freethinkers, agnostics, atheists etc. Belivers have their own sites and piss off there. I don’t mind those who have a sense of spirituality, but those who follow organized religion and interject themselves into our community really aren’t welcome, IMO. I have come here to escape stupidity and conflict. They should stick to Facebook.

Livia Level 6 Aug 12, 2018
1
4

Had someone bitching me out over the circumsision topic on another post and kind of felt like I was being religiously attacked even tho she was against it because it's a religious thing. My choices have nothing to do with religion, her beliefs or anyone else's and I didn't like that she was in my face about it. I don't have a problem with people who believe, but if you try to force your opinion down my throat, for any reason or belief or whatever, theres gonna be problems.

circumcision of girls and baby boys is reprehensible criminal and equal to cannibalism as a "religious thing"... that is how I have stood on the health policy for 30 years.... I'm not into shaming people for having a different view....I've never rushed into a hospital and took away a scalpel&clamp or disarmed a Mohel in a synogogue....I'd defend someone who did...and I forgive parents who stupidly allowed their children to be sexually mutiliated....I encourage everyone to read Ayaan Hirsi Ali report on her mother and grandmother sexually abusing her and calling her a whore for menstruating at an earlier age than them....millions of girls on this planet are sexually mutilated by muslims with dirty knives and cleaner but just as painful sexual mutilation of baby boys should be prohibited by global law just as cannibalism is banned.... it's all a matter of education, over coming the propaganda and censorship of this issue not SHAMING PEOPLE WE KNOW HERE

3

When I was discussing this concept on a different thread, I was pretty addament that they shouldn't be here, but after stumbling onto lewellyn3's bio I've been rethinking it, and I have a new perspective that I'd like to share.
Some of us (the nons) I'll refer to them as "the lucky ones" have always been in the revered position of never having to waste even one moment on any religious bull shit.
The rest of us got here through various amounts of tough sledding, we've all got our stories. The point being someone/s and/or something/s happened that either started to loosen they're grasp on the dogma and let in a little bit of the light of reality, or helped us to get rid of it epiphany style. Without whatever that was, where would we be without it?
For some people coming on here and politely observing the comings and goings might be what works for them.
I got my epiphany on my own, but then I didn't know what to do with it. Lucky for me I found some atheist 2.0s (Hitchens Dawkins Harris etc.) and some marvelous atheist comics to help nurture my just sprouting atheist seed. And the rest, thank the universe, is history.
So, if they're respectful, and here to learn, and not to teach, then I say let em in. And if they have some other agenda, then kick em the hell off, and let them go with god wherever they what, as long as it's not here.

2

Welcome to the dark side

5

Open to all. Just no proselytizing. Block 'em if 'ya don't like 'em.

3

I welcome the ones who are here because they have actually read their book and are questioning what they've been taught. Many of us were there once.

3

everyone has a block button use it accordingly

4

I don't like the idea of excluding anyone, especially on the basis of religion. However, this is the place we came to to get away from religious delusion, and it's nice to not have to deal with their shit here. I'd really rather not share this space with people who think the Noah's Ark story is real.

2

I'm on record several times here saying that I don't think this is a site for believers, but I respect the site policy. I do think there is a difference between believers who perhaps wish to engage here intelligently, and preaching types intent on saving souls and so on. The latter are not welcomed. I don't think there are many like that here, thankfully.

The other problem is definitional. What is a believer? Are Buddhists, new age spiritual types, secular religionists, non supernatural religionists, and others like that by definition believers? Is it just abrahamic religionists we call believers? When I joined I thought the demarcation was clear. But now it is murkier.

I thought the distinction was pretty clear also. I still do, and I'll briefly say why: For many of those 'others' of which you speak, spiritualists and so on, are dodging the issue. They know that the traditional religions are horse hocky, but don't want to give up having SOME sort of 'special' friend(s). Aliens or spooks and goblins or whatever... It's a dishonest attempt at calling themselves 'advanced' emotionally and/or mentally. It's a way of keeping the essence of religion without the book(s) and rules. I personally feel if one is going to claim to have rejected religion, one shouldn't be afraid to say so, bluntly, honestly. When I was still married, I called myself an agnostic, one who doesn't claim to know all the answers. (And I'd say it that way) Because I knew my wife's family already felt I was lower than dirt. I was never a Catholic. And they were. (Don't ask why I married a Catholic girl... who went to Catholic schools and all of it. I wasn't thinking... And hey, she WAS cute!) Now, I realize I was just trying to keep the uneasy peace, by saying Agnostic. That was dishonest. I wanted to avoid an all-out brawl over religion. So I can see why others might say they are something they are not. What I don't get, is why they say they are NOT something they ARE...

@Junkman I agree with you 1000% and indeed I call these people pseudo religionists, who are attracted to the trimmings and trappings of religion, while technically rejecting religion. I have no time for it. For me the line is very clear, but for some believer non religionists it isn't and I can see that any policy here that "believers" are not welcome would erupt in a huge debate on the meaning of the term.

3

I don't care, but I won't get out of my to make their life's easy. It depends on attitude.
I don't know of a real way to prevent them from joining except to have this site unfriendly to them. Admin has been swift to remove theist offenders in the past. If more join, their plate gets fuller.

4

I don't see why they should be here. They have enough places to go. Now that they have been given protection to discriminate. I want them gone. I went from being atheist to antitheist. I am so tired of their ignorance and circular reasoning. Like their kind like to say"you can't fix stupid".

4

No Way! if converters join I will leave, simple eh!

Only problem is that's probably what they are going for. Make them renounce their fictional god to sign up.

please don't! we need to maintain this precious non-hypocritical, taboo-free & openminded space for intelligent folks. report them, block them, but please don't leave.

7

I really don't want them here! This is the only place that we are free from all that garbage! My opinion!

totally with you!

5

We'd only be leaving ourselves open to propaganda, rhetoric and all the b.s. that goes with that. Think double agent and see where your head goes... probably not the greatest idea to let them in here and make order out of our lovely chaos.

2

Don't mean shit to me. I take joy in tearing them and their absurd beliefs to spreads. I am doubtful anyone other than the most mentally ill would venture into a platform where reason rules the day. (SHREADS NOT SPREADS)

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:291
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.