Fellow agnostics, how do you feel about believers joining?
This is likely contentious, but it needs to be asked. As this is a site "...promoting universal truths and peaceful life without religion" how do you feel about people of faith joining here?
I'm no shrinking violet and I don't need the sort of safe space that so many people believe they do now, but I also don't want to have to engage with people who have been inculcated into some form of unscientific, simple-minded view of the natural world.
I joined in the belief (cough) that this was an exclusive club where I could escape from these folk - but now I find they are joining - with a view to what, I don't know although my hackles are raised.
Not only is this sort of thing wasteful of resources, but if they are here to try to convert or preach at us, that's likely to result in a dissemination to all-out flame wars in a post or two.
I didn't think this was a site to convert people from one way of thinking to another (that sort of thing is nigh-on impossible by the time we're in our 20s anyway.)
I ask because I'm interested what my fellow angostic/athiests think.
I've noted that "theists" tend to butt in to these conversations with their ignorance and that's what I came here to avoid.
I'm getting too old to argue.
117
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I just joined the group today and I was reading some of the questions and post and was surprised by the how many believers there ended up being. I was hoping to come here for discussion among fellow non-theists on topics concerning non-theists without having to wade through theist comments. Though I am new so I haven't had "an issue" with them yet, if I continue to use the site regularly I am sure I will at some point.
Nicsnort
Level 6
Sep 26, 2017
12
I have no objections about anyone joining this group. But it should be listed on the application page what criteria is valid for membership. It is totally up to the discretion of the site administrator. As for me, I do not believe in ANY form of censorship.
Penultimate
Level 6
Sep 25, 2017
6
I'm glad you raised the question. I, too, would prefer that theists not join us. They already outnumber us in the outside world; it would be wearisome if they came here in large numbers. We already debate them constantly outside; why do they come in here? I'd suggest as a deterrent that the introductory questionnaire be edited, such that it no longer offers 0% to, say, 25% as a possible response to the question "How certain are you that no gods exist?" That would weed out most devout Christians from entering the site since answering the question without the 0% amounts to denying Christ, which is a big no-no.
vertrauen
Level 7
Sep 25, 2017
16
True, but most actual Christians would answer honestly because of the degree of condemnation assigned to Peter for his denial of Jesus on the morning after his arrest. Besides it would be fun to catch them out on "bearing false witness," denying Christ, and/or expressing doubts of their own supposedly solid convictions.
I like your idea, there could a limit to theist where there is reports of their troubles of trolling or bashing. They could be banned from site if too many reports. Too many numbers of one group outside of nonbelievers like theist's can get disrupting.
In theory I'd be more than fine with engaging in conversation with respectful theists, but I came here to have a place to talk to other unbelievers specifically. Seeing as though it's a specific forum and not an open outlet like facebook or reddit, I'm going to have to say that I'd rather not have believers on here.
jacksonMB
Level 3
Sep 25, 2017
30
I agree.
I'm not thrilled about it either. I wonder wtf they're doing here. It's one of the reasons I suggested to admin that we'll need a blocking/reporting system. Unfortunately, even if blocked, that won't keep their inevitable disruptions out of discussions, unless everyone agrees to ignore these folks.
One of the big problems with these folks that I've noticed in real life (among Christians) is that they don't know how to take "no" or "not interested" as an answer. They reject that agnostics and atheists are just as steadfast in their beliefs as they are in their Christian belief.
bingst
Level 8
Sep 25, 2017
38
I concur.
Same.
I would not defend but point out flaws and atrocities in scripture. I am not a Christian! There are many believers and many with doubts and open to an honest discussion on the authenticity of their faith and the Bible. Let them ask, I have answers. Sorry I did not make my self clear.
The religious have a blocking system for turning you away at the pearly gates AND further for condemning you to absolute eternal fire. Why sink to their level?
@Mcflewster I don't mind having conversations with believers. I won't put up with being harrassed by someone who wants to convert me, neither here nor in real life. It's the latter type I was referring to in my comment, and the consensus seems to be that that is the type who would probably join this site.
@bingst Fine but why do you get harassed. Are they winning?
NB this is not a battle but is concerned with our future and how soon we get to where you want to be
I think your right. I have a hunch that a religious person who joins this sight would be pretty sure about his/her position, and probably would be a nuisance.
That makes me do a double take. Your choice of vernacular.
As follows "They reject that agnostics and atheists are just as steadfast in their beliefs as they are in their Christian belief."
Like telling me you have a fying car, SAY WHAT?!
Atheism has no beliefs, it is a NON thing. By adopting Atheism one does not gain anything, especially some set of beliefs, they perhaps shed one they did hold, a theistic set.
Agnosticism is addressing an entirely different question, one about esoteric, revealed knowledge of some God orother.
SO how can any Atheist be steadfast in something which has no beliefs to be steadfats in?
Rather, your meaning is you are NOT convinced their religious tales are true and valid, you are NOT sold. By stating that you are just as steadfast in your belief in atheism, you have turned Atheism into another belief system, which is precisely what many fundamentalist sects argue that it is, or want it to be.
Then they can argue against that.
When you do not use such terminology they are truly stuck with the impossible task of trying to prove what they do believe, which cannot be done.
That effort makes them realize (sometimes), that it cannot be done, which makes folks think "Why do I believe this?"
@Leutrelle while I AM sure in my beliefs, I also realize that what I personally believe is not acceptable here and therefore, counter-productive to discuss. What is most interesting to ME for being here is hear from all of you your stories and what unkindness, hypocrisy and inappropriate comments that Christians have hurled at you that have deeply hurt.
In order to build a bridge, I feel I must hear the whole stinkin' truth. After all, I may have said and done the same things without realizing it, and I want to stop doing it, whatever it is.
I do respect the valid misgivings many of you have, however, and realize that centuries of mistrust won't be erased for a long time. If I step on toes, just let me know and you'll have my sincerest apology
Rest assured, I'm also NOT someone trying to write a book, either.I'm only here to listen and learn how to be a little more open-minded, more tolerant, and more sensitive to others. Peace to all on your journeys.
I'd prefer to communicate ONLY with agnostics and atheists! If I want to indulge with theists, there are plenty of places online and off for this. IF they are allowed, then it might be a good idea to have them clearly identified as such. I foresee them trying to take over the site, and agnostics and atheists growing frustrated and exiting. I'm too old to argue also, and I'm not trying to convert anyone. I guess the challenge would be how to determine whether they're a theist prior to acceptance, or showing them the door if they won't be respectful.
GoodMan
Level 7
Sep 25, 2017
18
SamL:
and what if aetheists aren't respectful?
Trouble is the theists tend to preach only to the converted and do not engage intellectually. Try a different approach??
I think we should have filters when searching for members, as well as filters to hide posts / comments from religious participants. Sorry, I have too many encounters with jeebus folks in real life and social media. If this place gets overrun by simpleton trolls.. It would not be good
different issue. it's deflection, @SamL.
SamL:
@walklightly what is deflection?
@SamL, it means a "change of direction". with your question you open a whole new can of worms, instead of staying with the issue, which is: do agnostics want to have believers amongst them here?
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