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Fellow agnostics, how do you feel about believers joining?

This is likely contentious, but it needs to be asked. As this is a site "...promoting universal truths and peaceful life without religion" how do you feel about people of faith joining here?

I'm no shrinking violet and I don't need the sort of safe space that so many people believe they do now, but I also don't want to have to engage with people who have been inculcated into some form of unscientific, simple-minded view of the natural world.

I joined in the belief (cough) that this was an exclusive club where I could escape from these folk - but now I find they are joining - with a view to what, I don't know although my hackles are raised.

Not only is this sort of thing wasteful of resources, but if they are here to try to convert or preach at us, that's likely to result in a dissemination to all-out flame wars in a post or two.

I didn't think this was a site to convert people from one way of thinking to another (that sort of thing is nigh-on impossible by the time we're in our 20s anyway.)

I ask because I'm interested what my fellow angostic/athiests think.

I've noted that "theists" tend to butt in to these conversations with their ignorance and that's what I came here to avoid.

I'm getting too old to argue.

By Draco
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44

I feel that this isn't a place that is created to function as a debate center, or a recruitment center. What other reason would a "true believer" have to join an "agnostic" group?


In other words, no, no, and hell no.

CatByrd Level 4 Nov 10, 2017
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I find I can agree with anyone about 95 present of things we discuss upon. That 5 percent of disagreements is a bitch. When the Religious come you, like this site. You have a big advantage to educate them of your way of thinking. If you don't like bebates, just say no, if you don't want to.

Above, I mean, don't like debates

I agree with CatByrd 100%

32

Today is my first day, but the reason I joined was to get away from religious view points and be able to be in a community of people who lean more toward the way I look at things. I get the religious perspective all the time. However, if they are respectful of our beliefs as I am with anyone else’s beliefs then maybe it will help bridge the gap between us all.

Alliegirl Level 6 Oct 1, 2017
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Welcome Alliegirl - I think you're echoing what the majority feel - I hope the Admin is watching. smile001.gif

Hello Alliegirl, That you for mentioning "respectful." I've always had a problem with people who think I should respect their beliefs - even if they are fundamentalists and represent everything I oppose. I don't think the Constitution says I have to respect anything (I haven't read it lately; I may be wrong). I have to TOLERATE their beliefs (as long as they are not truly evil, nazis, etc.). I will not respect beliefs that encompass racial bigotry and supporting a thug like trump.

I don't think the theists who want to join us are searching for truth - wouldn't they be calling themselves "agnostic" if they were? If they have questions, we can refer them to authors who have already anwered their questions - Dawkins, et. al.

@LIB75002 - I would go further : I certainly don't respect their beliefs, or even tolerate them - all I do is acknowledge them. End of.

@Agnostic1 - that's a great word. I'll probably start using it now instead of tolerate. Thank you

We actually need to be up against f2f with religious people all the time in order to refute their arguments and so them a more compassionate less negative way off living without having to preach or argue

26

I see no reason why any "True Believer" would join an agnostic site other than to harass us so no, they should not be allowed to join. They have plenty of their own clubs called churches everywhere.


As a refugee from being raised in the Bible Belt, I think I've had enough Believers for one lifetime.

ThunderKatt Level 4 Sep 27, 2017
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I grok that - I've got some great friends in the belt - all agnostic/atheist, all science-minded, smart and educated. All have to keep their lack of belief to themselves.

They're on a mission from god!

Draco...."grok"? LOVE IT. That's a term I haven't heard in decades. smile001.gif

I moved to TN from Minneapolis, believe me I agree with you 100%! TN's so called "Bible Belt" status is their culture, not religion. and here I lost my faith!

You should be in a better position than me to refute their arguments, unless of course when living in the BB you suffered permanent changes that are irreversible. I believe you are better than that.

@Mcflewster Your post is unclear -- are you insulting me or just telling me what I "should be" (your words)?

And I'm unsure what you mean by "permanent changes" when there were no changes - that was my life as I lived it, no edits, no changes.

So that being said, it's unclear what you think I am "better than". I don't speak in terms of "better than" because we are all just people living life the best we can.

Kindly explain your confusing words.

26

I'm not thrilled about it either. I wonder wtf they're doing here. It's one of the reasons I suggested to admin that we'll need a blocking/reporting system. Unfortunately, even if blocked, that won't keep their inevitable disruptions out of discussions, unless everyone agrees to ignore these folks.


One of the big problems with these folks that I've noticed in real life (among Christians) is that they don't know how to take "no" or "not interested" as an answer. They reject that agnostics and atheists are just as steadfast in their beliefs as they are in their Christian belief.

bingst Level 7 Sep 25, 2017
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I concur.

Same.

I would not defend but point out flaws and atrocities in scripture. I am not a Christian! There are many believers and many with doubts and open to an honest discussion on the authenticity of their faith and the Bible. Let them ask, I have answers. Sorry I did not make my self clear.

The religious have a blocking system for turning you away at the pearly gates AND further for condemning you to absolute eternal fire. Why sink to their level?

@Mcflewster I don't mind having conversations with believers. I won't put up with being harrassed by someone who wants to convert me, neither here nor in real life. It's the latter type I was referring to in my comment, and the consensus seems to be that that is the type who would probably join this site.

@bingst Fine but why do you get harassed. Are they winning?

NB this is not a battle but is concerned with our future and how soon we get to where you want to be

I think your right. I have a hunch that a religious person who joins this sight would be pretty sure about his/her position, and probably would be a nuisance.

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I just joined so I don't really have a lay of the land yet. That said, from the description of the site, I was led to believe this would be a place where we secularists could go to get away from the religious. Far be it from me to need a safe space, that's not what I'm trying to say. But let's be real, religious people own the world. They dominate the conversation everywhere. I don't think they belong here. They can go to their churches for fellowship. I don't want them here proselytizing and trying to convert us. I am tired of fighting with the religious and just want to find likeminded people that truly get where I'm coming from because that is really hard to find.

LuminousD Level 2 Oct 3, 2017
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Maybe, just maybe, from all of the madness of almost all religious people ... they might just make a statement that would give a glimmer of consideration. And isn't that why we are here? To be open enough to discover the truth for ourselves?

I agree. I'm new too but I also think it's going to be pretty hard to actively keep them out. I suppose unless they are causing a problem their really isn't a need to bother over it.

garlon999: No, I'm here to meet non-religious people so I don't have to have those damned discussions!

19

In theory I'd be more than fine with engaging in conversation with respectful theists, but I came here to have a place to talk to other unbelievers specifically. Seeing as though it's a specific forum and not an open outlet like facebook or reddit, I'm going to have to say that I'd rather not have believers on here.

jacksonMB Level 2 Sep 25, 2017
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I agree.

17

I came here to circle up with NONbelievers, specifically. ALL other aspects of my life are overrun with the religious. I just want a place to be myself and not have to worry about them. If this site chooses to go fully open, an understandable preference despite my not sharing it, I would likely drop out. Mixed, heavily religious sites pretty much own the internet, as well as US society in general. To become yet another typical site would be unfortunate. I certainly would not likely make time for that.


An exclusive site, largely social (not the same old religion bashing) for nonbelievers? I am behind THAT 120%! I really hope this site goes that way. It's off to a wonderful start!

Zster Level 6 Oct 8, 2017
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Clarification: nonbeliever might have been a poor word choice. Perhaps I should have stated religious or those of a belief that would draw them here to bash or convert those of dissimilar mind.

Don't let the religious win. I agree with your comment about "not the same old religion bashing. Refuting religion will require ALL our critical AND compassionate faculties

16

I really can't imagine most theists being respectful, or participating in discussion in a logical way.

JustKip Level 4 Nov 5, 2017
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16

I don't think they should be allowed to join. I joined because this was advertised as a dating site for non-believers. They've got Christian Mingle, let us have this. But of course, I am sure some nut jobs will come in trying to convert people and preach their nonsense. I get enough of their nonsense on Facebook, due to politics always being posted and me being the opinionated person I am, feeling the need to comment, especially when religion is mixed up in politics. And then I get attacked. This is my space to voice my opinion about not being religious and not being attacked for not believing in an imaginary sky daddy.

AccursedHalo Level 5 Oct 9, 2017
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16

I've been in and out of atheist/agnostic groups since the mid 90s. Letting in religious peeps always leads to problems and eventually dissolves the group.

Redlegdex Level 5 Oct 2, 2017
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14

This is my third time coming back to this question because it caused a lot more debate in my head than I thought it would. I'm an inclusive type of person so my first impulse was to allow them. However, the points I kept coming back to are:


1) This site provided me with room to breathe in a way I've never experienced before. Sure, everyone has different shades of non-belief and it's stimulating to discuss them, but I'm safe from the theist challenges I deal with in the rest of my life. There are tons of other sites out there where I debate as the black sheep "outsider" with the religious. It doesn't have to be this one.


2) Although it's a real bonus to find community here, I believed this was promoted as a dating site solely for agnostics which was a big draw for me. In fact, I've never joined a site so quickly as I did this one and I love the people I've met! I don't need to fear getting involved with someone who's just tolerating my beliefs.


So, no, I don't think they should be allowed.

Lauren Level 6 Oct 19, 2017
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While I took the stance of inclusion, I do see your point. It's such a relief to hear rational thoughts all in one place!

Take this as a "like" to your comment, silvereyes. (^.^)

I see your point, but in many ways when places become "echo chambers" they can defeat the purpose, especially if that is one of free thinking.

I understand what you're saying, PNEawf, but I've seen a lot of variations of freethinking here so I'm not sure we'd be too monotone. But one thing that seems to be uniform across the board is an unwillingness to date a religious person, so maybe it should be polled? (Or maybe it was, I'll have to go look.)

13

If they are here with an open mind to actually learn something, and have an intelligent discussion, they should be welcomed. If they are here just to be obnoxious, ignorant trolls, they should be banned.

ChevalMugs Level 4 Sep 27, 2017
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Agree

13

I'd prefer to communicate ONLY with agnostics and atheists! If I want to indulge with theists, there are plenty of places online and off for this. IF they are allowed, then it might be a good idea to have them clearly identified as such. I foresee them trying to take over the site, and agnostics and atheists growing frustrated and exiting. I'm too old to argue also, and I'm not trying to convert anyone. I guess the challenge would be how to determine whether they're a theist prior to acceptance, or showing them the door if they won't be respectful.

GoodMan Level 6 Sep 25, 2017
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and what if aetheists aren't respectful?

Trouble is the theists tend to preach only to the converted and do not engage intellectually. Try a different approach??

I think we should have filters when searching for members, as well as filters to hide posts / comments from religious participants. Sorry, I have too many encounters with jeebus folks in real life and social media. If this place gets overrun by simpleton trolls.. It would not be good

12

As much as I believe that everybody's view should be respected, I have found over the years that it is useless to try and reason with a believer, because they do not use reason, their mind is full of dogma which no amount of reason can dislodge.

Beelzebub Level 4 Oct 7, 2017
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11

No thanks, thought one of the main purposes of the site was to be a refuge from the religious.

ReadingRobin Level 3 Nov 18, 2017
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11

Part of my conversion to the truth was helped along by healthy debate. Some folks think it a waste of time, but while a staunch born-againer, sane and logical argument points would stick in my craw. So a point to remember: when engaging someone of faith in a discussion, keep it clean, respectful, and as insightful as possible. A good mixture of logic and philosophy 101 helps a lot.


So - let'm in. If they're abusive and don't want mature conversation, punt them.

Hominid Level 7 Nov 3, 2017
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I hate being wrong. My response was "Hell no!" but you've convinced me there is room here for "believers" - at least of a certain type.

11

I'm glad you raised the question. I, too, would prefer that theists not join us. They already outnumber us in the outside world; it would be wearisome if they came here in large numbers. We already debate them constantly outside; why do they come in here? I'd suggest as a deterrent that the introductory questionnaire be edited, such that it no longer offers 0% to, say, 25% as a possible response to the question "How certain are you that no gods exist?" That would weed out most devout Christians from entering the site since answering the question without the 0% amounts to denying Christ, which is a big no-no.

vertrauen Level 6 Sep 25, 2017
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That's assuming xtians would answer honestly. Devious devils!

True, but most actual Christians would answer honestly because of the degree of condemnation assigned to Peter for his denial of Jesus on the morning after his arrest. Besides it would be fun to catch them out on "bearing false witness," denying Christ, and/or expressing doubts of their own supposedly solid convictions.

I like your idea, there could a limit to theist where there is reports of their troubles of trolling or bashing. They could be banned from site if too many reports. Too many numbers of one group outside of nonbelievers like theist's can get disrupting.

10

Well this is a site for agnostics and atheists. A Christian has a ton of websites that they can join. I see their attempt to join a group of agnostics and atheists negatively. They either want to troll or "witness".

Avi_J Level 2 Nov 18, 2017
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I just joined the group today and I was reading some of the questions and post and was surprised by the how many believers there ended up being. I was hoping to come here for discussion among fellow non-theists on topics concerning non-theists without having to wade through theist comments. Though I am new so I haven't had "an issue" with them yet, if I continue to use the site regularly I am sure I will at some point.

Nicsnort Level 6 Sep 26, 2017
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9

Great way to turn the site toxic.


If you want to engage with believers there are plenty of other sites you can do that on.

ErrantRunner Level 2 Nov 12, 2017
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9

The simple answer is "Nope." The long answer is too long to write here. Just enough to say that believers who join agnostic/atheist groups just want to convert the non-believers.

SageDave Level 5 Nov 12, 2017
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9

I think, personally, that people who spout religion should be tactfully blocked from the site. I have enough religion jumping up in my face on social media, on the street, in the newspaper etc. I came here today to NOT have religious people on here.

Teresa Level 5 Oct 16, 2017
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7

Not.... they can use Christian mingle or Muslim mingle or Hindi hookup out Buddha dates or zorasters xing.... the kinky exceptions van be wicca and Satanists, because they won't argue with people that aren't going to change their minds anytime soon....

Boris1917 Level 4 Nov 18, 2017
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7

He'll, I avoid them in day to day life so why not here as well? ????

Amyg23 Level 3 Nov 5, 2017
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Because they NEED challenging. We will have to put up with them changing our laws for one until they are gone forever.

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My first follower is a believer. Sigh. I also received notification that he sent a message but messenger is bugging, so the chat box was empty. I've not seen him comment on any of the posts that I've read or commented on. I'm not interested in having private chats with believers here. Like you, Draco, I joined to escape from these folks. Feeling disappointed.

VictoriaNotes Level 7 Sep 29, 2017
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Given lemons, make lemonade. lol

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