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Fellow agnostics, how do you feel about believers joining?

This is likely contentious, but it needs to be asked. As this is a site "...promoting universal truths and peaceful life without religion" how do you feel about people of faith joining here?

I'm no shrinking violet and I don't need the sort of safe space that so many people believe they do now, but I also don't want to have to engage with people who have been inculcated into some form of unscientific, simple-minded view of the natural world.

I joined in the belief (cough) that this was an exclusive club where I could escape from these folk - but now I find they are joining - with a view to what, I don't know although my hackles are raised.

Not only is this sort of thing wasteful of resources, but if they are here to try to convert or preach at us, that's likely to result in a dissemination to all-out flame wars in a post or two.

I didn't think this was a site to convert people from one way of thinking to another (that sort of thing is nigh-on impossible by the time we're in our 20s anyway.)

I ask because I'm interested what my fellow angostic/athiests think.

I've noted that "theists" tend to butt in to these conversations with their ignorance and that's what I came here to avoid.

I'm getting too old to argue.

Draco 6 Sep 25
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583 comments (276 - 300)

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5

To be an Atheist is making a statement about Religion. It is your religion. Whatever their intentions are if they are going to try and win conversions ROR (Rots of Rocks) Most Religious Scholars cannot defend what they preach. That you are told to believe is the end all of their statements before the collection comes around. It a one day job that provides a nice income and place to reside. Don't call me on a Friday night was one of the asides they are famous for quoting.

Religion is to have a belief in some form or Organized Religion. My Belief is not to believe and there are followers of this Organization who are in agreement with this. I choose to not believe and am in support of all who follow that belief.

@okiestache I agree. Atheism is not a religion by the definition of an atheist. It is a belief system for me and I honor that. Religion is dogmatic.

@BettyColeman Atheism: I believe to not believe. Sholom or Shalom is a greeting of Peace for which every country has one special statement that is acceptable to all regardless of race, color or creed. Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays made it big for the Southern Christian Leadership. Lets Flip the Bird, give the Optical Salute or shuck out the Right Hand at a Rally which is not religious but makes a moment recognizable. Kneeling instead of standing is in no way disrespectful and has been recognized for eons. centuries, customs, formal ceremonies, as a totally acceptable venue of respect until?

@Nevermind345 i do not want to get into this. I am aware of this, but prefer to it as a personal choice, not to be shoved down any human's throat.

@okiestache I am for all of humanity and I don't give a rat's ass what you want you to believe. Do you not get that. You will NEVER get everyone on this earth to be all atheists. I am only concerned with humanity's quality of life, I do not want to tell them how to live.

@BettyColeman But doesn't it concern you the damage that religion has done and continues to do through out the world. We could talk about the crusades, the inquisition, missionaries who tried their best to destroy local culture, the oppression and subjugation of women. The method to control the masses by ' accepting their lot in life because it is gods will'. And frankly if I belonged to a tennis club with as much pedophilia as the christian churches have been accused of, I would distance myself from that club pretty damn quick. Accepting what people believe is a cop out. They should be challenged. And we need to fight to keep separation of church and state. So maintain the rage!

5

Sounds like a challenge. Although I've never heard of an open-minded fundamentalist. The Christian lable is so vague, there might be some who are just curious about how we think.

The fundamentalist and crazies dare not enter because it is more than likely a "SIN" for them to converse with the "unbelieving crowd"

@LetzGetReal Trolls are a waste of time and energy!

5

Are you scared? There can be no flame war if you do not react. Also, there is a Delete button.

There's a Delete Button??
I thought there was a 'block' button too, but I can't find it now.
Hmmm

@scurry If you have your Alert function set up ( the bell icon) to get your responses, then you can delete them.

@Spinliesel Ah yes - That I can do. Thanks 😀

@scurry scroll down to their chart with levels & labels and the block button their has red letters

@GreenAtheist thanks. 🙂

5

I am not thrilled at the prospects of religious, faithful people joining this site. It is like me going "born again" and stay in the site to convert atheists into god fearing christians. It does not sound right to me. I was looking for freedom FROM religion. I have a brother and a cousin that for years have been trying to convert me and no way am I going to let that happen. I'd rather be dead.

5

Negative. People who believe in and preach fantasy don't mix well with people who attempt to stay in touch with reality.

5

I am all for it. Being believer does not necessarily mean being an ass. As long as they are willing to be nice and receptive

Abay Level 2 Apr 10, 2018
5

Keep them away, we have enough from them in everyday life, don't need them here. Ban them if necessary.

yep, that happens 🙂

5

I kind of have mixed views on it. Although I do like to hear different viewpoints I also like the fact that most of us are on the same level as far as our skepticism of religion goes.

5

Only if this is a debate center and I do not like to debate. Believers would rant us to death on here and you could never get through to them. They want to go through BS that has already been brought out so many times you know it by heart. None of it proves their god or their beliefs.
A thousand times NO.

5

Those damn people have infiltrated everywhere else, and they are hateful bulies. No, this should be a bully free zone.

5

Personally, I'm open to talking to all sorts of people. As long as they don't push their beliefs on others. While I do not worship anyone's god/gods, I have always been interested in the topic. It can be difficult however, to find a religious person who can discuss without trying to convert. But I have met a few. I can totally understand not wanting to have them on a site like this though, it can get tiresome trying to find the few who are open to a nonjudgmental discussion.

Byrd Level 7 Mar 26, 2018
5

Personally I joined this because I wanted to be as much of that angry atheist as possible without friends and family calling me out on it outside of Facebook. I mean, do whatever you want, but it is called Agnostic for a reason

Adam7 Level 4 Mar 26, 2018

In Atheist Nexus we report them and they get booted out pretty quickly. They start slowly and then want to preach to us there.

5

To be honest there is enough influence to be had here among the unbeliving. We're all in various stages of self-awareness and [lack of] skill with critical thinking. For those of us who are deconverts we're all in various stages of prying religious faith and its associated operant conditioning out of our heads with crowbars.

I participate both here and on sites where the religious abound, and I've noticed something.

Basic questions like "what is the difference exactly between agnosticism and atheism" get asked here more often than on those other sites, but the questions are more honestly open and curious and seeking, and more desiring of a response based in reason and reasonableness. On those other sites there are always theists hectoring you about how evil / wrong you are, and informing you of what your beliefs and motivations are. In other words lots of bloviation and otherizing, and virtually NO listening or respectfulness.

I would rather address such questions reasonably, with reasonable people, or people who are at least well along on the journey to being reasonable.

It's not that there's no value in addressing those questions with theists in the mix, it's just that you're almost never going to get anywhere in moving along the thinking of such people. I participate in those sites because of the lurkers, not the actual participants. The lurkers are the true seekers there, but they're silent. Here, they are more active. That is refreshing.

I see it as a sort of continuum -- on the mixed sites, the doubters are unwilling to admit to their doubts openly, even to themselves, but know at some level they are on the wrong track. At some point they come someplace like this, where they're willing to openly address their lack of belief and are concerned with the practical matters of living in a majority theist society. I like helping them along in both environments but frankly after a few years on places like thethinkingatheist.com and city-data.com I am getting pretty tired of the fact that not one theist argument in years has been new or novel. It is just the same old same old.

If I repeat myself here at least it's just because of new people that haven't figured out how to read old threads, it's not that they're that 3,000th theist all full of themselves and convinced they have a "checkmate, atheists" argument that no one has ever heard before when in fact it's easily dispensed with in two sentences.

5

Why would they even want to?

my experience? mainly for trolling.

5

Im not here to dabate my non belief in the BS that is religion, if that happens I will leave.

we mostly just keep blocking & reporting the deluded ones, & eventually admin kicks them out 🙂

5

Sounds like a nightmare, I'm finding this an open and supportive place to chat. Having someone add a God into the situation would just be painful.

5

What you said in your original post mirrors my opinion. Spot on.

yes, mine too. welcome!

5

As a new member, I'd say no. Most believers are not interested in honest discussion about their claims, and simply run away when they find they have nothing to support their beliefs. They get upset when no one is willing to blindly agree to their claims, demand respect when they have not earned it.

Since I do enjoy debating theists, if we could limit them to a very small area, I'd have no problem with that. But if they are goingto be seagulls and try and poo on everything, no.

velk Level 4 Mar 5, 2018

yes, exactly my sentiment, but better worded 🙂

5

I think it is a bad idea

horrible idea,makes no sense.

5

I am new. Only if the believers are questioning. I like to be somewhere where my beliefs/lack of beliefs are not challenged. I am so tired of answering hateful statements caged as questions on Qoura.I think I have graduated from "logical arguments that are not listened to by closeminded people"

5

If they are here to meet people and understand our though process, no problem.

5
MarqG Level 5 Feb 23, 2018
5

I wouldn't care if they are here, just so long as they don't prosthelytize. I'm not even really enthusiastic about all the atheist rants either, but I guess there has to be a place for that somewhere. I was really hoping for a safe space from being preached at or otherwise having the theistic culture bashed over my head, and there would be a lot of topics that would have nothing to do with religion.

5

No one has any idea why they believe, nor the ability to discern what they believe from reality. Agnostics may believe but have doubt, humanists a general belief in the nature and goodness of man, etc. We all believe in something, so your question is null and deserves no answer. But if you're using the term believer in a highly prejudicial way, I.e. placing all religionists in the same basket(the way most non religionists are called atheist) then my answer is; why not?? Are you afraid that you might hear something useful from a believer, that your assumed ideas at infallible, afraid you might "drink the kool-aid". Pretty closed minded from where I stand

your comment contains at least 7 (seven) assumptions, so it's gonna be a tad difficult to disentangle your "message" from the mess, but i'll try my damnedest.

  1. "no one has any idea why they believe" = false, many believers will tell you that it gives them comfort & a sense of belonging.
  2. "..nor the ability to discern what they believe from reality" = how would YOU know?
  3. "agnostics...have doubt" = false, i have no knowledge AND no doubt.
  4. "humanists a general belief..." = false, humanism is not attached to any "general belief".
  5. "we all believe in something" = absolutely false. i believe in nothing.
  6. "most non-religionists [never heard that term before] are called atheists" = statistics, please.
  7. "afraid that...your assumed ideas..." = how would YOU know?

& there goes your "MESSage".

this website is designed to serve the agnostic community.
if i come across a website that caters to christians (as in: believers in a christian god) i will, as a heathen, be able to muster the selfcontrol & tolerance to steer clear of it.
if, on the other hand, you prefer to engage in lively discussions about the pros & cons of belief or not, i am sure you will find a website on the worldwide web that will accommodate this desire.
agnostics.com is NOT it.

@walklightly Thank you for saving me a great deal of time, I felt obligated to point out a similar list. I would have included for your #2 response that many atheists (like myself) use the scientific method (testable repeatable verifiable based on real world facts i.e. reality) and although not infallible, has provided the best methodology . . . "to discern what they believe from reality"

5

If the believer is belittling Atheism, and just being toxic I'm sure the individual would be flagged and maybe admin would step-in. It is pretty easy to ignore posts/comments that do not add value to a discussion, therefore I'm not worried about it becoming a problem.

However if the individual is asking rational questions and wants an atheistic point of view then I'd be more than happy to share my thoughts.

so far i only encountered one condescending believer.

I have run into a couple of theists that are much less then pleasant including a condescending, atheist mocking, science ridiculing level 7 member of this site.

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