Christian values.

Robecology comments on Jul 19, 2022:

Hard to believe that a solid agnostic such as yourself posted these. Trees and ocean waves are indeed beautiful...but they do NOT prove a creator exists. And why do they constantly refer to a creator as "he"? Why "sexualize" an alleged creator or creating force? And what evidence is ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 19, 2022:

@Robecology I like the last one especially. Do your bullying by proxy.

Christian values.

Robecology comments on Jul 19, 2022:

Hard to believe that a solid agnostic such as yourself posted these. Trees and ocean waves are indeed beautiful...but they do NOT prove a creator exists. And why do they constantly refer to a creator as "he"? Why "sexualize" an alleged creator or creating force? And what evidence is ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 19, 2022:

@Robecology No, I like playing the irony game, sorry.

Christian values.

Sofabeast comments on Jul 19, 2022:

All Things Dull and Ugly Monty Python All things dull and ugly All creatures short and squat All things rude and nasty The Lord God made the lot Each little snake that poisons Each little wasp that stings He made their brutish venom He made their horrid wings All things sick and ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 19, 2022:

I had forgoten that one. lol

Christian values.

Leetx comments on Jul 19, 2022:

What would the purpose of a "creator" be AFTER creation was complete ? ant farm ?

Fernapple replies on Jul 19, 2022:

I don't think that is one they thought through either.

Is scientific progress a 'good' thing?

Mcflewster comments on Jul 18, 2022:

@Fernapple @imran2002 My opinion (1) is that science can never be harmful .It is necessary to realize that knowledge produced in answering one question eventually leads to other questions which for other situations need answers Q where can I get a material that easily releases energy with a small ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 19, 2022:

@Imran2022 True but without science, philosophy and morality are adrift and competely at sea. You need philosophy and morality as well, but philosophy and morality are totally dependant on science, they can not work without it. Science is espevcially not in conflict with good philosophy, since science is, by far, just the most advanced form of philosophy, with the most refined rules and best working practices. Morality and philosophy will never help address the issues of global warming for example, simply because perfectly moral and reasonable people do not believe that it exists.

Christian values.

Robecology comments on Jul 19, 2022:

Hard to believe that a solid agnostic such as yourself posted these. Trees and ocean waves are indeed beautiful...but they do NOT prove a creator exists. And why do they constantly refer to a creator as "he"? Why "sexualize" an alleged creator or creating force? And what evidence is ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 19, 2022:

You have misunderstood, they are not my values, they are "Christian" values as it says at the top. The piece was intended to be ironic. Read it again please especially the last line. Like your meme.

Christian values.

RussRAB comments on Jul 19, 2022:

As natural as the trees is disease that disfigures and kills. Trees burn when drought and wildfires ravage leaving ash and blacked charcoal behind. As much beauty as we find in the natural world, there is plenty we consider ugly and horrific. They are two sides of the same coin and only our ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 19, 2022:

Yes they ignore that completely.

Is scientific progress a 'good' thing?

Mcflewster comments on Jul 18, 2022:

@Fernapple @imran2002 My opinion (1) is that science can never be harmful .It is necessary to realize that knowledge produced in answering one question eventually leads to other questions which for other situations need answers Q where can I get a material that easily releases energy with a small ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 19, 2022:

@Imran2022 Yes human technical progress is a great danger, but technical progress is not all of science, nor even a synonym for it, and we would be completely unaware of the dangers of technical progress and without any tools to address it without science. There is only one world and therefore only one true model of it, Plato And Aristotle did have different models, and therefore one of them was wrong (or both). Science is not in conflict with morality, quite the opposite, most good modern morality, starts from science and the empirical truths it expresses, and if morality is in conflict with science then clearly that is not the correct morality. You say that science is not a synonym for reason and logic, and it certainly is not, but it is a lot more synonymus with logic and reason, than it is with technology. It is quite impossible to have and manage an understanding of the world, by logic and reason alone, without empirical truth to base it on. For example, if I said. "We should burn all people suspected of witchcraft, because casting spells is evil." It is perfectly logical, reasonable and in line with a well formed moral system. It just fails, because it is not empirically true. And science is a branch of philosophy, once called natural philosophy, which meant originally only the study of nature. But because nature is complex and unlike the arts and morality not subjective, understanding it required better methods and more discipline to gain results, science thus became the most advanced and disciplined of all philosophies. And at the bottom science means no more than saying. "Empirical truth is not given, if you want to reach it, then it requires work , effort and organized systems." That's it, and nothing more, and if you think that you can get to truth and morality without work, effort, and system , then you are going nowhere fast.

Is scientific progress a 'good' thing?

Mcflewster comments on Jul 18, 2022:

@Fernapple @imran2002 My opinion (1) is that science can never be harmful .It is necessary to realize that knowledge produced in answering one question eventually leads to other questions which for other situations need answers Q where can I get a material that easily releases energy with a small ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 19, 2022:

@Imran2022 I have added a bit on the end. Which is the part intended for you, as a reply, I only pasted the main part again for the benefit of others reading.

Is scientific progress a 'good' thing?

Mcflewster comments on Jul 18, 2022:

@Fernapple @imran2002 My opinion (1) is that science can never be harmful .It is necessary to realize that knowledge produced in answering one question eventually leads to other questions which for other situations need answers Q where can I get a material that easily releases energy with a small ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 19, 2022:

@Imran2022 That is good, but I have to say that in a much bigger picture way, I do exactly agree with you. In fact I am one of those people who actually think, that not only science but all of human culture may be in the main, harmful. Not just religion as you would expect on this site, but technology, the arts, politics etc. the whole thing. The reason being, that no animal can pre-adapt to a new or changed environment, if a creature, from Africa, say, should find itself washed out to sea, and having survived the crossing, lands on the shores of South America, it is unlikely to be well adapted. Few animals however have had such a dramatic and sudden change of environment as humans, when only a few million years ago, we developed language. Which was at the time, no doubt, a useful tool and a great aid. But it brought with it the possibility to create culture, and probably the inevitability of that act. So that we suddenly changed from being an animal living in a natural environment to which we were adapted, to being an animal living in a cultural environment, for which we were almost completely ill fitted. The first great mismatch. Hence the reason why we so prone to being manipulated by parts of our own culture, like religion, nationalism etc. and why agriculture, gives us super abundant foods, which we can not eat and remain healthy, religion, gives us a super abundance of stories that we can not pick the truth out of, and the media gives us a super abundance of human contact which we can not befriend all of, and so we become hostile. And also why I am particular to make the difference between, pure science, ( Which is a pre-existing term not mine. ) and applied science. Not only because wisdom is nearly always with the nuanced, and that is the more nuanced view, but also because it is perhaps, only perhaps, the one and only human creation which may have a redemptive power in the end. Without science there can be none of the reason and truth about which you talk, because reason and truth are totally dependent on the scientific method, like it or not, if you are looking for reason and truth in any organized way likely to produce results, then you are doing science. Because that is what science is, just the search for reason and truth given a scruture and framework to help it work better.

"To live a good life: We have the potential for it.

Willow_Wisp comments on Jul 18, 2022:

I'd love to be indifferent to things that make no difference. I ignore sports. I ignore most celebrity news. However no one can afford to ignore the weather just as no one can afford to ignore politics or religion in the face of Christian Nationalistic fascism. Today the things you ignore can ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 18, 2022:

I think that M. Aurelius would agree with your choices.

Is scientific progress a 'good' thing?

Mcflewster comments on Jul 18, 2022:

@Fernapple @imran2002 My opinion (1) is that science can never be harmful .It is necessary to realize that knowledge produced in answering one question eventually leads to other questions which for other situations need answers Q where can I get a material that easily releases energy with a small ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 18, 2022:

That is a great defence of science, and I do not substantially disagree with you but. See my final reply that I was working towards at the bottom of the page. Just posted.

Is scientific progress a 'good' thing?

Fernapple comments on Jul 17, 2022:

Hello and welcome. You may like to ask if there is a difference between science, and engineering or technology ?

Fernapple replies on Jul 18, 2022:

@Imran2022 That is good, but I have to say that in a much bigger picture way, I do exactly agree with you. In fact I am one of those people who actually think, that not only science but all of human culture may be in the main, harmful. Not just religion as you would expect on this site, but technology, the arts, politics etc. the whole thing. The reason being, that no animal can pre-adapt to a new or changed environment, if a creature, from Africa, say, should find itself washed out to sea, and having survived the crossing, lands on the shores of South America, it is unlikely to be well adapted. Few animals however have had such a dramatic and sudden change of environment as humans, when only a few million years ago, we developed language. Which was at the time, no doubt, a useful tool and a great aid. But it brought with it the possibility to create culture, and probably the inevitability of that act. So that we suddenly changed from being an animal living in a natural environment to which we were adapted, to being an animal living in a cultural environment, for which we were almost completely ill fitted. The first great mismatch. Hence the reason why we so prone to being manipulated by parts of our own culture, like religion, nationalism etc. and why agriculture, gives us super abundant foods, which we can not eat and remain healthy, religion, gives us a super abundance of stories that we can not pick the truth out of, and the media gives us a super abundance of human contact which we can not befriend all of, and so we become hostile. And also why I am particular to make the difference between, pure science, ( Which is a pre-existing term not mine. ) and applied science. Not only because wisdom is nearly always with the nuanced, and that is the more nuanced view, but also because it is perhaps, only perhaps, the one and only human creation which may have a redemptive power in the end.

Is scientific progress a 'good' thing?

Fernapple comments on Jul 17, 2022:

Hello and welcome. You may like to ask if there is a difference between science, and engineering or technology ?

Fernapple replies on Jul 18, 2022:

@Imran2022 I am sorry but while I agree that science and engineering are often together I do not at all think that it is rare for them to be apart,. In fact that is the most common state, and a good argument could be made that science which is conected to engineering or funded by the commercial need for research is not truly science at all, but merely research.

How does belief in the existence of a genocidal maniac in the sky make you a good and moral person?

TheMiddleWay comments on Jul 17, 2022:

Off the top of my head: 1) Belief that even if you trick every single human being of your malfeasance there is still one non-human being that you can't trick is an incentive to not do that malfeasance for a lot of people. 2) during the birth of religions, people's were subject to many beliefs ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 18, 2022:

Good list.

How does belief in the existence of a genocidal maniac in the sky make you a good and moral person?

KateOahu comments on Jul 17, 2022:

Why do people keep saying “up in the sky”? Where is it written that ”god” or “heaven” is either “up” or “in the sky”? I’m afraid my religious education is sorely lacking.

Fernapple replies on Jul 18, 2022:

There would I think though be a reasonable presumption on a western web site, that god equals the Abrahamic god, who was originally a sky god. Probably even a fairly limited sky god, who main remit was rain and thunder storms, and it was only over time that he became the Jewish god and took on a wider use.

Is scientific progress a 'good' thing?

Fernapple comments on Jul 17, 2022:

Hello and welcome. You may like to ask if there is a difference between science, and engineering or technology ?

Fernapple replies on Jul 18, 2022:

@Imran2022 I do not dispute that science can do harm, if it did not, it would be just about the only thing in the human world which does not do both harm and good. But I do dispute the lumping together of science and engineering/technology, since it is I think indisputable that technologies such as burning coal and oil would have been discovered by accident and pure design, even if we did not have science. But without science, we would not have any idea of the effects of those, and our use of them would probably be far less efficient making the effects worse.

Is scientific progress a 'good' thing?

Fernapple comments on Jul 17, 2022:

Hello and welcome. You may like to ask if there is a difference between science, and engineering or technology ?

Fernapple replies on Jul 17, 2022:

@Imran2022 But how would you know about climate change if it was not for science ?

Perhaps a little one sided in its opinion, but at least one well respected thinker does not think ...

Garban comments on Jul 17, 2022:

So morality, without religion, functions to stabilize communities of social mammals. I wonder if we might learn something from this?😉 I especially liked the reconciliation aspect he was speaking about; a lesson that humans may eventually grasp? Good stuff. Thanks.

Fernapple replies on Jul 17, 2022:

Julie808's thought and my reply below may interest you.

Perhaps a little one sided in its opinion, but at least one well respected thinker does not think ...

Julie808 comments on Jul 17, 2022:

It seems that the simple natural consequence of being well thought of by peers can do quite nicely as a moral compass!

Fernapple replies on Jul 17, 2022:

It is your best investment I think. Apologists often also ask about the rise of civilization, and especially how moral loyalities come to reach out to larger groups than the extended family. I think that in that the much overlooked aspect of life called "trade" comes into play. Trade gets a bad name, because today it is very much associated with many negative things like capitalism and advertizing. But in its early days when trade was just bartering for things wanted and needed, then trade partners would be the first real extention of social life beyond the family, and your " need to be well thought of" and those who you yourself think well of, soon becomes a drive and demand, to protect the members of the trade network. While with trade for the first time the competetive nature of life, becomes subverted because for the first time successful competition becomes pleasing others !!

Is scientific progress a 'good' thing?

Fernapple comments on Jul 17, 2022:

Hello and welcome. You may like to ask if there is a difference between science, and engineering or technology ?

Fernapple replies on Jul 17, 2022:

@Imran2022 Now you are getting there. And would it be possible to stop science and its use for engineering even if you wanted to ?

Perhaps a little one sided in its opinion, but at least one well respected thinker does not think ...

racocn8 comments on Jul 17, 2022:

Hitchens is especially eloquent, but similar comments can be found by Richard Dawkins, Stephen Fry, and many others. It is the counter proposition that needs to be examined: Can belief in obvious and absurd mythology generate anything but moral degradation? (I'll dub that the HAL9000 argument)....

Fernapple replies on Jul 17, 2022:

Yes, a complete reversal of the most fundamental of natural moral feelings.

"Summer time, when the livin', is easy."

Robecology comments on Jul 16, 2022:

Where's this taken...and what's the game called?

Fernapple replies on Jul 16, 2022:

Its just outside my house. It is lawn bowls, the idea is that you roll the bowls to get them as close as you can to a small ball called the jack. The added complication comes from the fact that, the bowls have a weight built in called the bias, which makes them curve, and you have to try to find ways to use the curve to get past the other bowls to the jack. All without landing in a trench, called the ditch, around the outside of the green. Men and women play together, and it is great fun on a summers day, especially, if as we do, you don't take it too seriously. White tops and grey trousers or skirts is the uniform.

"Summer time, when the livin', is easy."

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Jul 16, 2022:

No way! My grass is yellow and dry. Too hot to even take a walk. This is a trick picture!

Fernapple replies on Jul 16, 2022:

@Gwendolyn2018 I have a spare room.

"Summer time, when the livin', is easy."

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Jul 16, 2022:

No way! My grass is yellow and dry. Too hot to even take a walk. This is a trick picture!

Fernapple replies on Jul 16, 2022:

This is England, wet even in summer, but our greenkeeper does give water as well. It never gets too hot not to take a walk, in fact it never gets too hot not to go out without taking a coat with you, even if you don't wear it. But this week it is said we are going to get our hottest ever temps, over 30 centigrade.

"Summer time, when the livin', is easy."

Marionville comments on Jul 16, 2022:

Are you in the grip of the heatwave where you live? They say it’ll peak at around 40.C this weekend! Keep shaded and well hydrated if you are. We’re a much more comfortable low 20s here on this side of the Irish Sea…thankfully!

Fernapple replies on Jul 16, 2022:

@Marionville We are said to get thirty six.

"Summer time, when the livin', is easy."

Marionville comments on Jul 16, 2022:

Are you in the grip of the heatwave where you live? They say it’ll peak at around 40.C this weekend! Keep shaded and well hydrated if you are. We’re a much more comfortable low 20s here on this side of the Irish Sea…thankfully!

Fernapple replies on Jul 16, 2022:

No heat wave yet but very dry, they are however talking about records being broken on Monday and Tuesday. Thank you for the advice.

I'm so tired of hearing people say "I have very intelligent friends who support trump.

FvckY0u comments on Jul 15, 2022:

Perhaps a person likes trump because they to are a fascist.

Fernapple replies on Jul 16, 2022:

Would you wear a red maga hat for a day, if you thought someone was offering you a million dollars to do so ? Perhaps not, but some would, for far less, even though their conscience tells them its wrong.

I'm so tired of hearing people say "I have very intelligent friends who support trump.

Leetx comments on Jul 15, 2022:

I am at a loss how ANYONE could listen to trump speak for two minutes and not know he is, (for lack of a better term) an ass clown. I feel sorry for those who believe his dumb ass.

Fernapple replies on Jul 16, 2022:

If you have a vested selfish interest, in being allowed to continue to act like a clown yourself, even though you should be clever enough to know better. Then .......

To a degree I do have some sympathy with the religious fundamentalist and literalist.

Flyingsaucesir comments on Jul 15, 2022:

I don't agree that moderate religious sects are more "shallow, narcissistic, dishonestly cherry picking, manipulative, self serving, and corrupt" than fundamentalist ones. I think it's the other way around.

Fernapple replies on Jul 15, 2022:

Could be, in fact almost certainly to some degree so, but if the fundamentalists see the moderates as all of those things, then they are not wrong either. Moderate religion helps the fundies in three ways, its failings make them more certain of their extreme views, it renders all religion respectable, and it creates the environment in which they can swim and look for support. Both negative and positive assistance.

To a degree I do have some sympathy with the religious fundamentalist and literalist.

David1955 comments on Jul 14, 2022:

Yes, well in fact I think about this kind of thing as well, and perhaps there is some similarity in our thinking. You know how much I despise religion, so no doubts there. It occurs to me though that the general view is that somehow fundamentalist religions are perversions of these religions and ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 14, 2022:

Exactly.

It’s not really about whether you consider yourself an atheist or a theist.

Druvius comments on Jul 13, 2022:

I'm not really sure what your argument is. All humans use metaphors. God is a metaphor. So all humans have God?

Fernapple replies on Jul 14, 2022:

@skado "Civilization was built on a religious foundation." Yes it was, but only by default, because there was at the beginnings of civilization little else available, though trade networks probably helped much more. And yes. "Science is not a replacement for religion." Nor should it ever pretend to be, but it is a replacement for some of religion's functions, and it is not alone, we now have, nation states, the rule of law, secular morality, philosophy, democracy, socialism, environmentalism, trade networks, humanism, the idea of social justice, public welfare, international law, and secular education at least. Religion was only ever a primitive substitute for all of those, and if only because those many ideas offer more nuance, and more honest mission statements, it is now obsolete, get over it. Especially since literalism and fundamentalism will always be inherent in religion, and will be increasingly attractive , to the criminal and the anti-social as they are excluded from mainstream society by all those things, it becomes increasingly their last resort. And to a degree I do have some sympathy with the fundamentalist. They look at moderate religion, especially cults, like the metaphorical view, and they see rightly, that it is, shallow, narcissistic, dishonest cherry picking, manipulative, self serving, and corrupt, and their moral instincts give them a visceral disgust at the very thought of it. Their only mistake is in thinking that more religion, not less, is a better answer.

It is not often a a designer, that you get to go back and visit a garden you made many years ago, ...

FrayedBear comments on Jul 13, 2022:

Well deserved. Did you get a bonus?

Fernapple replies on Jul 13, 2022:

Yes I got a free lunch. Its the North East.

Mcflewster asked me to quote myself, so by special request this time only.

Robecology comments on Jul 12, 2022:

Greed is the perfect addiction. http://robecology.blogspot.com/2016/12/greed-perfect-addiction-and-one-factor.html

Fernapple replies on Jul 12, 2022:

Thank you for the link.

It is not often a a designer, that you get to go back and visit a garden you made many years ago, ...

Redheadedgammy comments on Jul 12, 2022:

How absolutely gorgeous! I recently went back to the house I had to sell after my husband’s passing to see the yard and flower beds that Richard and I lovingly planted. The young couple had ripped everything out. 😕 my neighbor went over and pulled as many of the gardenias, roses, and ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 12, 2022:

There is nothing more ephemeral than a garden , sadly. Or perhaps in some ways happily too, it was always in some ways pleasant for me to think, that, I was involved in perhaps the one major, none perfomance, art form, which is unlikely to ever be a burden to future generations.

Forbidden

Fernapple comments on Jul 11, 2022:

Can also be said that we are all poor, and the rich are the poorest of all, because they prize something that can not make them wiser.

Fernapple replies on Jul 12, 2022:

@Mcflewster Ok by special request.

It is not often a a designer, that you get to go back and visit a garden you made many years ago, ...

MizJ comments on Jul 12, 2022:

The center planting is located to be seen from the windows :)

Fernapple replies on Jul 12, 2022:

Yes.

I went out to lunch yesterday, with members of a group called The National Gardens Scheme, which we ...

RussRAB comments on Jul 9, 2022:

What a great charity. Do the gardeners charge a fee or does the organization simply ask for donations?

Fernapple replies on Jul 9, 2022:

Each garden is free to charge what they think is fair. Obviously some gardens are small, and some are very big, so it is up to you what you think your garden is worth, and you can of course also sell refreshments and plants to raise extra money. Some of the members with larger gardens even have visiting nurseries and crafts people with stalls, like a mini market.

“This idea that being youthful is the only thing that’s beautiful or attractive simply isn’t ...

Fernapple comments on Jul 9, 2022:

You can look all of your nine decades, and still look full of life. My Bestie.

Fernapple replies on Jul 9, 2022:

@Diogenes Yes real style.

I went out to lunch yesterday, with members of a group called The National Gardens Scheme, which we ...

FrayedBear comments on Jul 9, 2022:

Browsing whilst eating my Saturday meal & not putting my brain into gear I was about to ask "where are you" then the gear clicked "he's taking the photo you dumb bear!" 😁 But please refresh my memory as to what an English garden lunch consists off? How many gardens are you talking about ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 9, 2022:

@FrayedBear I would say it is more like two thousand in a peak month like June, with some open more than once, say £500 to £600 each opening. Presse is just a posh word for juice, stupid name if you ask me, and I meant quiche, sorry.

I went out to lunch yesterday, with members of a group called The National Gardens Scheme, which we ...

OldGoat43 comments on Jul 9, 2022:

Does anyone grow cannabis as a health benefit?

Fernapple replies on Jul 9, 2022:

I have no idea. I grow Eupatorium cannabinum, the Cannabis Leaved hemp Agriomony and people keep asking me for some. I have to explain that it is not cannabis, I don't know if they always believe me. LOL

One super cool dude. Photograph by Gary Jones

SnowyOwl comments on Jul 8, 2022:

The Original Stealth Bomber! Love It!

Fernapple replies on Jul 9, 2022:

They have special sound preventing hairs on their feathers.

I went out to lunch yesterday, with members of a group called The National Gardens Scheme, which we ...

FrayedBear comments on Jul 9, 2022:

Browsing whilst eating my Saturday meal & not putting my brain into gear I was about to ask "where are you" then the gear clicked "he's taking the photo you dumb bear!" 😁 But please refresh my memory as to what an English garden lunch consists off? How many gardens are you talking about ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 9, 2022:

lunch = Chicken, pork pie, sausage, haslet (Local meat loaf type. ) quish, salad, pickles, boiled potatoes, vegan meat loaf, boiled eggs, potato salad, various sweets, wine or elderflower presse, coffee. No idea the total number of gardens, but there are forty in our county, times fifty or so counties, though not all open in the same months.

Another semi-bright idea of mine: I wish we could come up with a way to recognize each other in ...

racocn8 comments on Jul 9, 2022:

I believe there is an American Athists symbol. Alternately, CFI may have a pin.

Fernapple replies on Jul 9, 2022:

@LovinLarge I think that she may have been a tiny minority, don't let her put you off.

The thinking error at the root of science denial - [theconversation.com] .

Fernapple comments on Jul 8, 2022:

The three most important things to understand. There are few absolutes, there will almost always be some evidence for and against everything, and most things exist on a spectrum often with the biggest concentration in the middle. ( Its even called the standard distribution. ) Yet it is hard to ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 8, 2022:

@Alienbeing, @yvilletom Well there are a few yes. comment corrected.

The thinking error at the root of science denial - [theconversation.com] .

Fernapple comments on Jul 8, 2022:

The three most important things to understand. There are few absolutes, there will almost always be some evidence for and against everything, and most things exist on a spectrum often with the biggest concentration in the middle. ( Its even called the standard distribution. ) Yet it is hard to ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 8, 2022:

@Alienbeing There are a few yes, granted. Comment has been corrected.

A new look at how minerals form, puts life at the centre of earths geology.

Garban comments on Jul 7, 2022:

I consider myself a bit of a science nerd, I especially enjoy physics, but I’ve forgotten geology. Good article and a reminder I need to spread myself even thinner.😉

Fernapple replies on Jul 7, 2022:

They say, you can't be too rich or too thin.

Are there any left?

ChestRockfield comments on Jul 6, 2022:

I finally got one of those apologists to block me, so at least I don't have to hear his nonsense anymore.

Fernapple replies on Jul 7, 2022:

@ChestRockfield Sorry to spoil your day. As you probably know there is one in particular who I keep an eye on, but sadly I can't be everywhere.

Are there any left?

ChestRockfield comments on Jul 6, 2022:

I finally got one of those apologists to block me, so at least I don't have to hear his nonsense anymore.

Fernapple replies on Jul 7, 2022:

The only down side to that is, that when they have blocked the people who are willing and able to stand up to them. They are then free to bully new members, the weak and innocent without any checks. I strongly suspect that a lot of new members join, encounter an apologist bully, who does not care about giving new members chance to find their feet, on their first visit, and they then never come back again. Which is doubly sad because it is probably the weak, damaged and most vunerable, who are seeking and need community most, who are most likely to be driven away.

A joke about second hand cars.

hankster comments on Jul 3, 2022:

are there any new shiny beliefs to pick from?

Fernapple replies on Jul 5, 2022:

@hankster What is a crock ?

A joke about second hand cars.

hankster comments on Jul 3, 2022:

are there any new shiny beliefs to pick from?

Fernapple replies on Jul 5, 2022:

@hankster That is a little different , you can ask for the evidence that the proof is real, that is the next stage down and is quite justified, since it is not proof that makes a religion but fake proof. Certainly though if hard atheists believe that they have proof of their position, then they become a religion themselves, only agnostics can truly be honest, and have any justification for smugness.

A joke about second hand cars.

hankster comments on Jul 3, 2022:

are there any new shiny beliefs to pick from?

Fernapple replies on Jul 4, 2022:

@hankster Yes provability would remove a beliefs potential to be religion. If I have a box of matches, and I shake it and it rattles: Then I can say there may be matches in there but it could be other things, that is honest doubt. If I look inside, count the matches and find twenty one, then that is evidencial proof. If I guess that there are twenty one then that is honest belief. And if I guess there are twenty one, but also claim that I know that because I saw it in a vision and my visions are true, then that is religion.

A joke about second hand cars.

hankster comments on Jul 3, 2022:

are there any new shiny beliefs to pick from?

Fernapple replies on Jul 4, 2022:

@hankster Sorry perhaps I should have been plainer. The whole point is, that there is no requirement for proof, those that attempt to provide it are trying to sell something that is not needed. Just like the advertising industry selling deodorant to people who wash regularly. That is why all the proof has to be fake, beliefs can be honest and unsupported by any proof, and are better for that. It is the attempt to prove them with false proof that moves them into the realms of religion.

"Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.

Fernapple comments on Jul 3, 2022:

I sometimes wonder if there was ever a day when Feynman did not say something funny and wise.

Fernapple replies on Jul 4, 2022:

@yvilletom They are great ones, thanks.

A joke about second hand cars.

Word comments on Jul 3, 2022:

Beliefs are not passed. Belief is a subjective action that each person does to hold information as true. Knowledge or information of something is what is passed from person to person or in a family or culture. The information can be forced upon someone but it is still their subjective ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 4, 2022:

@Word No wisdom is nearly always in the greater nuance, and I do see a difference between both pairs of words.

A joke about second hand cars.

hankster comments on Jul 3, 2022:

are there any new shiny beliefs to pick from?

Fernapple replies on Jul 4, 2022:

@hankster The store is all of human culture, and there you can find shelves stocked with all sorts of things, like environmentalism, socialism (Not to everyone's taste. ), humanism, human rights, feminism, the rule of law, social justice, scientific scepticism, etc. There is even a stall, deep in a back room, where they will do you a bulk discount on a big box of ad populum. ( Some people say that it is counterfeit, and you should not buy it, but it is cheap and seems to work OK. Up to you. ) The big difference with the most of the new goods you can get today is, that they don't come with the costly often dangerous and environmentally damaging packaging, which prevents you from seeing what you are truly buying, as you do with religion. What you see is what you get. OK, enough with the OTT metaphor. The serious point is, that I have long held a personal definition of religion, which seems to work very well in practice, for me anyway. Which is. "Religion is a synonym for the fallacy of proof by authority." Whether that authority (packaging) comes from, an imaginary supernatural source, tradition, and old revered book, or the magical supposed wisdom of a guru (Personality cult.) The big difference being that honest belief systems, do not support themselves with fake evidence/authority. Where environmentalism for example reaches the point of being supported by no more than unsupported belief, then you can clearly see that. If you say that, you believe that it is our duty and proper function to protect the environment, you have then got to admit, if you are honest, that that is just a belief. And if I say, I believe. That we should not give a hang about the environment, mess it up and just accept that we will be the last happy generation to live on earth, if not the last of all . Then that is my belief, and we have to agree to differ. (I hope that you will think that I am a complete jerk, but that is beside the point. ) The problem comes when someone says something like. "I believe males should be dominant over females, because the tradition of our sacred musk ox, says so. We put out two boards out on the tundra with male and female written on them, and our sacred ox pissed on male. Which clearly proves that it prefers males to be dominant." And there are a number of problems with that line of thinking. Not least of which is, that it by claiming fake authority, the supernatural powers of the ox, it attempts, unfairly, to unbalance the debate. And also that by forcing the believer to accept the use of fake evidence, it forces the believer and the believers sub-culture to accept high levels of cognitive dissonance, and poor levels of sceptical thinking, debate, and honesty, as a normal situation. Which spills over into all other spheres of thinking ...

A joke about second hand cars.

waitingforgodo comments on Jul 3, 2022:

This story conveys a moral and spiritual lesson and any resemblance to a person living or dead is entirely coincidental. Do not rely upon this information in the selection of renewed, re-used or recycled religious goods and services.

Fernapple replies on Jul 4, 2022:

Love it.

A joke about second hand cars.

Word comments on Jul 3, 2022:

Beliefs are not passed. Belief is a subjective action that each person does to hold information as true. Knowledge or information of something is what is passed from person to person or in a family or culture. The information can be forced upon someone but it is still their subjective ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 4, 2022:

@ChestRockfield I don't think I can unpick the salad, but lets try to get to the meat instead. I think that what is meant is that, in the true meaning of the term, free will, we do not have it, because our brains are controlled by the physics of atoms and electrons etc. which are deterministic. But the emergent property of our brains, which we call consciousness or the conscious mind , within which we live, certainly has the illusion, that it has free will, and since we, as personalities live entirely within our conscious brain, we are therefore part of that illusion, and must follow it's logic and rules. And since the illusion is our entire world and the world within which we live, we therefore have no alternative but to behave as if we have free will, even though we may feel, we know is not literally true, and logic and science confirm that. Unlike in, for example, the matrix film, there is no pill that we can take to escape the illusion that we have free will, even though we know that we don't. There is simply no where else to go, not only are we in the matrix, but we are the machine which creates the matrix too. Where it gets interesting is when we come to issues like crime and punishment, since we could ask. If we don't have free will, then how can someone be guilty ? To which I think that you have to divide the word guilt into two, and realize that it actually means two different things. One being the literal sense, of, did this person actually smash the window and pick the jewels up, and the religious idea of guilt as a sin or stain on some imagined part of the emergent part of the person we sometimes call soul, for want of a better word. We all understand this really, because we all know that we mean different things by, was he guilty, and, I feel guilty. And if as atheists/agnostics, we reject the idea of soul, and free will, then the idea of spiritual guilt, has to go with it too. But, that does not abolish the other idea of guilt in the literal mechanical sense of. "Was it Tom who smashed the jewellers with a hammer, or was it Paul." Since without the spiritual form of guilt, crime and punishment are not now a search for, a spiritual abstraction called justice, but merely a mechanical act of society, enforcing rules to protect itself. And that works, because just as guilt can not exist in Tom's case of having a stain on his soul, then neither can society be guilty of injustice in the spiritual sense, if it opts to enforce its rules and punish Tom. What works for one also applies to the other. Yet wonderfully that does not affect the actual workings of justice, as a social mechanism. Since if a society or the nation, are not seen to be making a maximal effort to make sure that it does punish all the Toms and not by mistake the ...

A joke about second hand cars.

Betty comments on Jul 3, 2022:

A belief system that is shared by family, peers, and community is not questioned in childhood and is therefor taken for granted. By the time a teenager is considering a second hand car their beliefs are not even on their radar. It isn't until their beliefs are challenged that either they will be...

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2022:

That's it.

A joke about second hand cars.

Word comments on Jul 3, 2022:

Beliefs are not passed. Belief is a subjective action that each person does to hold information as true. Knowledge or information of something is what is passed from person to person or in a family or culture. The information can be forced upon someone but it is still their subjective ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2022:

True but then many never even consider, attempt to understand or evaluate alternatives.

A joke about second hand cars.

Julie808 comments on Jul 3, 2022:

Yes, I believe you are right about that. I spent a good 2-3 hours one Saturday, looking at cars with my father and bought my first car that afternoon. Lucky for me, my dad was fond of Mustangs, so I had a pretty cool car for my hard earned baby sitting money of $900. I spent at least 20 years ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2022:

@TomMcGiverin So true, and not just in America.

A joke about second hand cars.

Redheadedgammy comments on Jul 3, 2022:

https://youtu.be/VPf6ITsjsgk When I first saw this movie and heard this song, I had my aha moment about religion!

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2022:

My favourite musical.

A joke about second hand cars.

hankster comments on Jul 3, 2022:

are there any new shiny beliefs to pick from?

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2022:

Lots.

Well it looks like Matias has blocked me again, and I was not even remotely rude this time.

anglophone comments on Jul 2, 2022:

I have no time for Matias. In my experience he has very limited cognitive powers and he is almost devoid of social awareness.

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2022:

@David1955 The Dunning Kruger effect is aways part of every would be prophet's make up, and that is fostered and added to, by religion which feeds narcissism in order to make people needy. As in. "You are so much more important than the others, you are smart enough to have chosen the correct way, you are a big part of god's/the universe's plan, we can give you meaning etc. " "And you can keep coming back to us for reassurance, as often as you like. Just don't forget the collecting box on your way out."

Hercules

Krish55 comments on Jun 30, 2022:

Heracles, not Hercules...

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2022:

@Krish55 Yes the boat was certainly carrying loot, but it could have been made to order for a Roman, there is no way of knowing. (PS I do prefer Heracles myself. )

Well it looks like Matias has blocked me again, and I was not even remotely rude this time.

racocn8 comments on Jul 2, 2022:

I blocked Matias about a month ago. Reading through the comments reminded me why. He's an argumentative idiot, and the arguments are not original or meaningful. I'll tolerate a different view if it has merit, and presented honorably. Matias doesn't qualify.

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2022:

I think he just cuts and pastes from apologetics web sites and books.

Well it looks like Matias has blocked me again, and I was not even remotely rude this time.

ChestRockfield comments on Jul 2, 2022:

He's a fucking coward. I destroyed his argument and he responded then blocked me so I couldn't read and reply. I'm better off without his bullshit apologetics in my feed, you are too.

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2022:

I just like to watch such people in case they do things like bullying new members, who have not found their feet yet.

Well it looks like Matias has blocked me again, and I was not even remotely rude this time.

HippieChick58 comments on Jul 2, 2022:

It's not you, it's them. They just can't handle you. I decided long ago that once I blocked someone they're dead to me. I don't unblock. What other people do is their own business. Life is too short...

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2022:

@MsKathleen Well said, and very wise.

Well it looks like Matias has blocked me again, and I was not even remotely rude this time.

Redheadedgammy comments on Jul 2, 2022:

I am blocked as well Fernapple, I find Matias a true snowflake. He can certainly dish out his criticisms of others in a passive aggressive way, as his last post mentioning “those that say religion poisons everything” was a direct attack on me. I’ve written that statement many times on this ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2022:

I am going to write his name on a block of wood, real 'block', and display it in the trophy case.

Well it looks like Matias has blocked me again, and I was not even remotely rude this time.

anglophone comments on Jul 2, 2022:

I have no time for Matias. In my experience he has very limited cognitive powers and he is almost devoid of social awareness.

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2022:

That is true, I suspect that he has lost what little personality he may have had to relgion, it does that to people. The repeated need to pratice accepting cognitive disonance destroys the natural instincts for things like honesty and courage.

Well it looks like Matias has blocked me again, and I was not even remotely rude this time.

Pralina1 comments on Jul 2, 2022:

I can’t believe u bothering w that clown to be honest . If u are black , immigrant , woman , atheist , gay , or u support any of above , that clown is here to tell u y u shouldn’t . He will had do very well in his country in the 1930s and 40s . The nostalgia for a time that is gone even in ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 3, 2022:

I liked to refute his posts, for the benefit of those who may read them. He seems to get his posts from the apologist media, and more or less just copies and pastes, the debating practice was useful if not challenging.

The other day, someone asked: Why has England copied so many names of U.S. towns and cities?

Garban comments on Jul 2, 2022:

England also copied the days of the week from the US.😉

Fernapple replies on Jul 2, 2022:

And the months of the year. I wonder what percentage of people in the USA ever wonder why the pagan Romans and Norse named their gods after the days of the week and months of the Christian year ?

Those hateful atheists who think that "religion poisons everything" (one of their mantras which I ...

Fernapple comments on Jul 1, 2022:

Of course religion has had many benefits, especially in the past, I doubt you will find anyone to dispute that, that is a strawman argument. In part because, in the ancient past, religion was simply the same thing as culture, the Roman word "religio" even meant exactly that, to some, because the ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 2, 2022:

@Matias No I do not think that anyone would assume that, no mention of a time period, meant all time periods, but would rather assume that the present tense was implied by default. However since this is a broad and liberal site, some members may not be all that intelligent or diligent readers, and it is possible that I could have misled them, for which I stand corrected. It is always good to be very careful what you write because of that, but sometimes it is needful to take risks in order to keep things short enough. As to why and how religion switched sides, that did not take place at any one time but was a gradual process, in which the definition of the word itself was forced to change to match growing understanding. Which history was the main part of my comment here. So that I will quote it again. "In part because, in the ancient past, religion was simply the same thing as culture, the Roman word "religio" even meant exactly that, because the modern word culture did not then exist. But the world moves on, and soon, as knowledge grew, and morality became more refined, people added new words to represent more nuanced ideas, starting with philosophy way back in ancient Greece and China, then politics, then the arts, then science, then secularism, then at last culture, humanism and environmentalism etc. in this century. And as new ideas carved out new areas for themselves, the world of thought became more complete and more nuanced, and so did the language that modelled it. And wisdom and understanding is always about the greater nuance. Religion was probably mainly harmless, even beneficial, ( Though I doubt it. ) when it was the same as all of human culture. But eventually the word came to mean just that small corner of human life and thought, where we still deploy fake authority and little else." The word religion simply does not mean the same thing today that it did in the past, and that is not just a label swap but represents real changes in society and thinking. And I am sorry to say that the simplistic demand for a stated single time when the change occured, ignoring the fact that changes may be gradual. Is just another example of apologitics style pseudo-logic, the sort of low trick which I was talking about, which may be forgivable in people infected with apologetics, where low standards are the norm, because it usually only involves preaching to a converted audience who will nod along to anything. But it hardly belongs in real debates between adults.

Those hateful atheists who think that "religion poisons everything" (one of their mantras which I ...

Fernapple comments on Jul 1, 2022:

Of course religion has had many benefits, especially in the past, I doubt you will find anyone to dispute that, that is a strawman argument. In part because, in the ancient past, religion was simply the same thing as culture, the Roman word "religio" even meant exactly that, to some, because the ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 2, 2022:

@Matias I would think that it would get quite a high return of yes votes, and there would be some justification in that. In part because everything poisons everything, there is nothing in human experience that does not have a cost and a down side, whatever the benefits. Simple dualism s belong to religious thinking and sadly that can infect other ideologies as well, especially those who are most engaged with relgion even in oposition.

Octopuses may be so terrifyingly smart because they share humans' genes for intelligence.

FvckY0u comments on Jul 1, 2022:

"However, since octopuses are quite distant from humans on the tree of life, it's possible that active LINE transposons in the two groups are an example of convergent evolution. This means their contribution to intelligence evolved separately in the two lineages, rather than originating in a shared...

Fernapple replies on Jul 2, 2022:

The only problem with that is. That if we both inherited them from the same origin, then why did that manner of using the genes disappear in all the intermediate species?

I see that the useful lie argument still has some support even among people on this site.

Matias comments on Jun 30, 2022:

"Some support among people..." *Who* is a proponent of the idea that religion is a useful lie? Nota bene: a lie is not the same as an imaginary construct, an imagined order...etc. Talking about a *lie* presupposes that the liar is aware of the truth. (Yours truly would never call religions ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 1, 2022:

@Matias The term useful lies, was inspired by, the well known quote from Lucius Annaeus Seneca. "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." Which I thought to be so well known, that most members would recognize the derivation without a prompt. So I shortened it to fit. Seneca's idea is nearly two thousand years old, and has been quoted widely by many authors over that time. Hopefully Seneca is old enough to meet the needs of religious conditioning, to only believe very aged authority.

Those hateful atheists who think that "religion poisons everything" (one of their mantras which I ...

Fernapple comments on Jul 1, 2022:

Of course religion has had many benefits, especially in the past, I doubt you will find anyone to dispute that, that is a strawman argument. In part because, in the ancient past, religion was simply the same thing as culture, the Roman word "religio" even meant exactly that, to some, because the ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 1, 2022:

@Matias, @Redheadedgammy, @ChestRockfield You two will make me blush.

Those hateful atheists who think that "religion poisons everything" (one of their mantras which I ...

Fernapple comments on Jul 1, 2022:

Of course religion has had many benefits, especially in the past, I doubt you will find anyone to dispute that, that is a strawman argument. In part because, in the ancient past, religion was simply the same thing as culture, the Roman word "religio" even meant exactly that, to some, because the ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 1, 2022:

@Matias, @Redheadedgammy I try my best, it is nice to know that people find value in it.

Those hateful atheists who think that "religion poisons everything" (one of their mantras which I ...

Fernapple comments on Jul 1, 2022:

Of course religion has had many benefits, especially in the past, I doubt you will find anyone to dispute that, that is a strawman argument. In part because, in the ancient past, religion was simply the same thing as culture, the Roman word "religio" even meant exactly that, to some, because the ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 1, 2022:

@Matias No my last was only about the present and future. I made no mention of the past. Really, if that is the kind of silly joke argument that you think is worth making, it is time to consider the damage to the personality that long term contact with religious appologetics may be doing. It is I know, common place in theist circles to use that sort of misdirection, but they never seem to realize that outside in the open air that is only going to make them look silly. Quotes, it only took seconds to run these down, and there are lots more. "And of course we can retain a sentimental loyalty to the cultural traditions of, say, Judaism, Anglicanism or Islam, and even participate in religious rituals such as marriages and funerals " "It is time to face up to the important role that God plays in consoling us; and the humanitarian challenge , if he does not exist." Both R. Dawkins.

Hercules

Krish55 comments on Jun 30, 2022:

Heracles, not Hercules...

Fernapple replies on Jul 1, 2022:

Yes, Heracles if Greek but Hercules in Latinized form if Roman. And since it was found in Greece, you would think Heracles, but then it was found on a probably Roman ship, probably headed for Rome, and probably owned by a Roman, so could be either really.

I see that the useful lie argument still has some support even among people on this site.

Matias comments on Jun 30, 2022:

"Some support among people..." *Who* is a proponent of the idea that religion is a useful lie? Nota bene: a lie is not the same as an imaginary construct, an imagined order...etc. Talking about a *lie* presupposes that the liar is aware of the truth. (Yours truly would never call religions ...

Fernapple replies on Jul 1, 2022:

@Matias No I explained the difference between a imaginary constructs, or honest beliefs, like for example money, and religions below. Maybe you missed it.

I see that the useful lie argument still has some support even among people on this site.

Matias comments on Jun 30, 2022:

"Some support among people..." *Who* is a proponent of the idea that religion is a useful lie? Nota bene: a lie is not the same as an imaginary construct, an imagined order...etc. Talking about a *lie* presupposes that the liar is aware of the truth. (Yours truly would never call religions ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 30, 2022:

@Matias Here you go. https://agnostic.com/post/671948/one-of-the-fundamental-misconceptions-many-atheists-have-is-that-they-consider-religion-to-be-nothin

Why Do I Care What People Believe? Worth a watch indeed! [youtube.com]

nogod4me comments on Jun 30, 2022:

"A doctrine insulates the devout not only against the realities around them but also against their own selves. The fanatical believer is not conscious of his envy, malice, pettiness and dishonesty. There is a wall of words between his consciousness and his real self." - Eric Hoffer, Author of The ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 30, 2022:

Great quotes. Why not post them in the quotes group ?

I see that the useful lie argument still has some support even among people on this site.

Matias comments on Jun 30, 2022:

"Some support among people..." *Who* is a proponent of the idea that religion is a useful lie? Nota bene: a lie is not the same as an imaginary construct, an imagined order...etc. Talking about a *lie* presupposes that the liar is aware of the truth. (Yours truly would never call religions ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 30, 2022:

So you are a true believer then ?

I see that the useful lie argument still has some support even among people on this site.

FvckY0u comments on Jun 30, 2022:

I view religion into 1 of 2 categories. First category are people that don't believe in it but simply use it as a means for their own personal enrichment or to control others. Perfect examples of this would be various televangelist and politicians. In this regard I certainly agree with your ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 30, 2022:

Yes, indeed, and that is one reason why I have a great deal more respect for the fundamentalist true believer, who may, however wrongly, feel that they need their religion; than I do for the none believers who think they can benefit if they can fool others into belief, whatever the cost to those fooled. The useful lie idea, is of course only used by those outside relgion, or non believers within it, the true believer would not accept that view. I can also accept that some people may be happier with religion than without it, and would not try to undermine their faith if I thought they would be hurt by that. My questioning of the useful lie idea, is only directed at those who want to promote religion, because they believe that there is no alternative and that therefore religion should be enforced. I do believe there are alternatives and that with time they can gently prevail.

I see that the useful lie argument still has some support even among people on this site.

Matias comments on Jun 30, 2022:

The concept of "inalienable human rights" is a useful lie too. Or if you prefer: a useful imaginary construct. As long as people believe in it, and it does more good than harm - what's wrong with it? Organisms have to survive and maybe even prosper , and if they achieve this using mimicry, ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 30, 2022:

@Alienbeing Perhaps not, but lots of people would support their anti death penalty position, on the basis of right to life beliefs.

I see that the useful lie argument still has some support even among people on this site.

Matias comments on Jun 30, 2022:

The concept of "inalienable human rights" is a useful lie too. Or if you prefer: a useful imaginary construct. As long as people believe in it, and it does more good than harm - what's wrong with it? Organisms have to survive and maybe even prosper , and if they achieve this using mimicry, ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 30, 2022:

@ChestRockfield, @Alienbeing It can be an imaginary construct and a real thing as well, the two are not mutually exclusive. I can imagine it, and someone who believes in the death penalty can imagine that it is suspended in some cases. But as ChestRockfield says, it also has a basis in biology.

I see that the useful lie argument still has some support even among people on this site.

Matias comments on Jun 30, 2022:

The concept of "inalienable human rights" is a useful lie too. Or if you prefer: a useful imaginary construct. As long as people believe in it, and it does more good than harm - what's wrong with it? Organisms have to survive and maybe even prosper , and if they achieve this using mimicry, ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 30, 2022:

@Alienbeing, @ChestRockfield Very true. I was concentrating on the arguments of Matias, and missed the fact that his example is false anyway.

I see that the useful lie argument still has some support even among people on this site.

yvilletom comments on Jun 30, 2022:

Please copy and paste a few lines of the comments that resulted in your conclusion.

Fernapple replies on Jun 30, 2022:

Here you go not hard to find, it only took me seconds to chase down a couple of links, (Best to read the whole thing.) and there are lots more. https://agnostic.com/post/671948/one-of-the-fundamental-misconceptions-many-atheists-have-is-that-they-consider-religion-to-be-nothin https://agnostic.com/group/ReligiousNaturalism/discussion/652401/as-far-as-cosmology-is-concerned-i-m-a-thoroughgoing-materialist-but-there-is-nothing-about-tha

I see that the useful lie argument still has some support even among people on this site.

Matias comments on Jun 30, 2022:

The concept of "inalienable human rights" is a useful lie too. Or if you prefer: a useful imaginary construct. As long as people believe in it, and it does more good than harm - what's wrong with it? Organisms have to survive and maybe even prosper , and if they achieve this using mimicry, ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 30, 2022:

Yes but I was not talking about 'all' imaginary contructs in the post, but only religion as a useful lie. That is why the words, "where religion is seen", appear in the second sentence, quite plainly. Not all imaginary constructs which people choose to believe in are lies, or religions, it only becomes a lie or religion when you are dishonest about it, by trying to pretend, to yourself and others, that it is not an imaginary construct, or supporting it with fake authority, not merely the fake authority of an imaginary god, but the other fake authorities such as tradition and personality cult as well. As to the negative effects, or dangers, of "dirty tricks," well my post is little more than a list, though not a very complete one, of those, so I may leave it to you to read it again. One of which is of course, that manipulating labels, as though objective truth can be magiced up, just by renaming things. ( The linguistic fallacy. ) Such as for example compounding religion with all "imaginary constructs" by ignoring the differences between the two, to enable the use of the same label for both. Which has the especial danger, among many others, of making the users look like dishonest fools in everyone elses eyes. A perfect example. I am little interested in the fallacy of proof by authority even in the case of Nietzsche or Jesus. And in any case would point out that Nietzsche did not say "exclusively Christian idea". And while I quite agree with the probably completely fictional character of Jesus on a few things, the usage of "truth" by the nameless writer of John's Gospel, is exactly an example of the "Lady doth protest too much." principle that, truth is a word most often used by those promoting the opposite.

I see that the useful lie argument still has some support even among people on this site.

David1955 comments on Jun 30, 2022:

Yes, I know what you mean -- a few on this site. Those who like to suggest that while religion is bad, it's good in some ways. I don't buy it. By religion I think we mean organised religion. Most of us don't care If people want to stay at home and worship the sun, or whatever. Knock yourselves ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 30, 2022:

Yes thank you, I know exactly what you mean.

[youtube.com] A video on the truth behind the story of Creation

FvckY0u comments on Jun 27, 2022:

A wonderful attempt at cognitive dissonance. For those that believe in the bable. That would, of course be those that were born in a Christian society and Christian family or converted to christianity through fear of being killed. Discount all gods throughout history both accepted and thrown on ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 28, 2022:

@skado I think that fvckyou is refering to learning to live with, accept or ignore, cognitive dissonance. Which can certainly be a learned and praticed art form, often propagated by institutions promoting irrational world views.

[motherjones.

Garban comments on Jun 27, 2022:

Amazing how stupid people are. “Women on the pill are less attractive to men according to various studies. Further to this, research suggests that women on the pill are attracted to less masculine men.” Wow. They really think people are livestock.

Fernapple replies on Jun 28, 2022:

Could be that. Women who are more intelligent may be more likely to use birth control, and be less likely to be attracted to stupid jocks.

In America everyone has the right to be ignorant and most Americans take full advantage of it.

racocn8 comments on Jun 27, 2022:

Education is mandatory, but the process of education has been stymied by a protracted cultural battle between teachers and the fascist Christians who benefit from having ignorant, easily manipulated people.

Fernapple replies on Jun 28, 2022:

@anglophone Nor is teaching.

Could the Americans on this site, tell me please, as someone not from the USA, how does it happen, ...

Alienbeing comments on Jun 25, 2022:

First, the USA is NOT a Democracy at th Federal level, nor was it ever intended to be one. Second, we are a nation of laws, Judges review laws in ALL countries. Third, the USA has always left most decisions to States. Read the last paragraph of our Constitution and perhaps you will understand.

Fernapple replies on Jun 25, 2022:

@Alienbeing Thank you again. The first one was actually the one I found, but not the second.

A society that is not also a community is nothing more than a collection of individuals.

FrayedBear comments on Jun 25, 2022:

Sadly often held together by ignorance & belief in the umproven fairy tail. Rarely working for the benefit of all.

Fernapple replies on Jun 25, 2022:

@FrayedBear Depends on what fairy tale you pick. I think that some of the modern ones, like environmentalism, human rights, humanism, and internationalism are a big improvement on the old ones like theism. And yes they are all of them fairly tales, since non of them are based on any logical historic proof, only our natural instinctive feelings. ( We could for example, all say. "f~~k the environment, let us be the last humans on a survivable earth. And it would be perfectly logical, it just would not feel good. ) But the big benefit of the modern "belief systems", which is perhaps a more dignified word than "fairy tales", is that they are to a greater degree honest. It is fine to admit that they have no support other than instinct and ad populum, and by not setting up fake sources of authority such as old books, supernatural revelation, tradition, guru based wisdom etc. You do not create a lie friendly culture, where the sources of fake authority set up for one thing, can be picked up and used by the anti social, for quite others. Such as where nazies picked up cultural Christianity, and use its authority and its preconditioning of people to accept high levels of cognitive disonance to manipulate the population. The modern belief systems at least 'try' to fit within a scientific sceptical framework. When once you start down the road however of the "useful lie" idea then you create a lie friendly cultural environment and you can then be led down any path. As much as anything, it is not what a belief system stands for, that counts, so much as whether by trying to be honest, and showing high levels of respect for sceptical thinking, it trains the population to be honest and sceptical.

Could the Americans on this site, tell me please, as someone not from the USA, how does it happen, ...

Garban comments on Jun 25, 2022:

Not a lawyer but from what I understand the right to abortion is not codified in any federal law. The Row vs Wade ruling “extended” the right to privacy to cover abortion, sexuality, and other rights. With Roe struck down all of these rights are relegated to whatever laws are on the books in the...

Fernapple replies on Jun 25, 2022:

@Alienbeing I will read it be sure.

Could the Americans on this site, tell me please, as someone not from the USA, how does it happen, ...

Garban comments on Jun 25, 2022:

Not a lawyer but from what I understand the right to abortion is not codified in any federal law. The Row vs Wade ruling “extended” the right to privacy to cover abortion, sexuality, and other rights. With Roe struck down all of these rights are relegated to whatever laws are on the books in the...

Fernapple replies on Jun 25, 2022:

Thank you.

Could the Americans on this site, tell me please, as someone not from the USA, how does it happen, ...

anglophone comments on Jun 25, 2022:

It does not help matters when such judges are appointed by a career criminal who has yet to be prosecuted.

Fernapple replies on Jun 25, 2022:

No I can see a big problem with that.

Could the Americans on this site, tell me please, as someone not from the USA, how does it happen, ...

LovinLarge comments on Jun 25, 2022:

Our Constitution establishes three branches of government intended to check and balance each other: the judiciary, the executive and the legislative branch. SCOTUS, the Supreme Court of the US is our final judicial arbiter. Its judges are appointed for life, although many judges in the US are ...

Fernapple replies on Jun 25, 2022:

Thank you.