What's your reason?

Fernapple comments on Feb 28, 2022:

"Shocked and horrified by what religion does to people." Is missing.

Fernapple replies on Feb 28, 2022:

@Word Perhaps, but it is not my job to change the language. You are welcome to try if you wish.

Yes, Inability to Do Math Results in Being Deeply Religious

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Feb 27, 2022:

It does not! I can do the basics, but I became an English teacher for a reason.

Fernapple replies on Feb 28, 2022:

@Gwendolyn2018 No, I think that is the cart before the horse, it is not that mathematically inclined people are likely to become more logical, but that, more logical people are more inclined to love maths. (And see through religion of course, so it is probably correlation rather than causation.) The article itself though is a little vague and woolly. That was more my take on it. Though it has to be said that there has recently been some very good hard research done, which I think is widely available on line, on how early education affects the brain. Apparently children and young people under twenty still have undeveloped and malleable brains, and introduction to high level academic skills at that young age, causes the areas of brain associated with memory to grow, but they do so at the expense, of the areas we use for logic and creativity, which are of course the key skills in maths. So the old folklore wisdom of science/maths or humanities but rarely both, dualism for human personality, probably has a real basis, not just in genetics, but also in nurture. In fact the scientists involved were a bit judgemental and went so far as to say that study of the humanities and language, including probably religious studies, causes brain damage. But I think they were being a little hard as I say.

What's your reason?

Fernapple comments on Feb 28, 2022:

"Shocked and horrified by what religion does to people." Is missing.

Fernapple replies on Feb 28, 2022:

@Word Yes perhaps, but not all religion is pure and faultless. And I think that the many other types are much the more common.

Not a quote sorry, but here goes.

Fernapple comments on Feb 28, 2022:

The rule I was taught at school was. Use "an" when the word starts with a vowel, or with a "h" if that "h" is followed by a soft vowel, So. He lived in "an" hotel with "a" hot host, who he found very sexy.

Fernapple replies on Feb 28, 2022:

@puff Who in this case, though I must admit it was a hard one to call, I had to think about it and I could easily be wrong.

Yes, Inability to Do Math Results in Being Deeply Religious

Fernapple comments on Feb 27, 2022:

I don't know about religion but it certainly make you easily taken in by things like gambling, and if you are foolish enough to fall for that, are you really fit, to say, vote in an election ?

Fernapple replies on Feb 28, 2022:

@ASTRALMAX That is very true, it involves a reward which is not promissed and requires belief, mistaken belief in both cases. Indeed you could say that those religions which claim to offer cures for gambling addiction, ar just replacing one gambling addiction with another.

Yes, Inability to Do Math Results in Being Deeply Religious

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Feb 27, 2022:

It does not! I can do the basics, but I became an English teacher for a reason.

Fernapple replies on Feb 28, 2022:

It is not saying that being good at maths is the only reason for being an atheist, only that it may give some protection against the worst of religion.

Yes, Inability to Do Math Results in Being Deeply Religious

Fernapple comments on Feb 27, 2022:

I don't know about religion but it certainly make you easily taken in by things like gambling, and if you are foolish enough to fall for that, are you really fit, to say, vote in an election ?

Fernapple replies on Feb 28, 2022:

@Gwendolyn2018 No, it often has everything to do with math, for the maths type of person, it is not just about skills, but having a math attuned attitude of mind, as well. Maths is a metaphor for the world, about pure abstract manipulation of symbolic ideas, and any one who has learned even at the most basic level the pure joy and pleasure of that, takes the understanding to heart. So that affects personality, in a profound way, and does provide a defence against things like gambling, although it is true that there are other porsonality types who are safe as well.

Mine🥺😜😱😂🤣🤔

lerlo comments on Feb 27, 2022:

If she's already that wet she doesn't need the umbrella anymore🤣

Fernapple replies on Feb 27, 2022:

You have not had a lot of success with the oposite sex, have you ?

Local Bar Stops Selling Russian Vodka Over Ukraine Invasion

Fernapple comments on Feb 27, 2022:

Polish vodka is far better anyway.

Fernapple replies on Feb 27, 2022:

@barjoe I have to say I have never tried that, but if I see some I will give it a go.

As far as cosmology is concerned, I’m a thoroughgoing materialist.

Fernapple comments on Feb 24, 2022:

Nope. That is just the original sin fallacy, dressed up in fancy clothes.

Fernapple replies on Feb 27, 2022:

@skado And I keep returning also because I think you are worth it. No, that statement contains a self contradiction, when you first say that crime is not a human need, and then that "Anti-social sentiments are a biological throwback," since, a need and what you call a biological throwback can not be anything but the same thing, all needs and every aspect of the human condition are ultimately genetically determined. Including, both the highly moral, and the anti-social, which people would not indulge in if they were not driven by needs, however distorted. Since all human institutions are rooted in our biology, we can only evaluate them one against the other in cultural terms, since that, and not our biology, is what we have the means to change. Therefore shifting the blame for what some human cultural institutions may do, on to biology is a complete misdirection. Humans have a biological need for high calorie, food dating from times when starvation was a real threat. But for the advertising industry to claim that it is acceptable and they are perfectly entitled to push sweets at children. With hard advertising and bright packaging, because greed, and its symptoms of obesity, heart disease and diabetes are just biology. Assumes a truly extreme level of stupidity in court of public opinion. Which is not noted for high intelligence, but it certainly does not sink that low. Institutions have to answer for their cultural/institutional crimes without passing the buck to biology. No, not all people do need crime, thankfully, but by definition criminals do, and they are human, just as carpenters need wood, and blacksmiths need iron. Yes of course some religion has, and does, contain strong moral teachings against many of the worst aspects of superstition, or fundamentalism as you call it. But I can not think of a single good idea contained within the framework of religion, which could not be relabled as philosophy, science or popular moral consensus. As with for example the "Do unto others" statement of Jesus which I used in the last post, which was probably plagiarized from Plato in the first place, and was certainly also stated by Confucius, Kant and dozens of other philosophers. And it is just that part of religion, the moral and philosophically honest part, which is dying, as religion fades as a part of mainstream human culture, the only bits which may in some places continue to thrive, are the, what I would call criminal, and you would call fundamentalist parts, because mainstream culture has better ways of doing good now, along with the fringe woo and pseudo-science sectors, which I would label as criminal as well. Part of the reason why we should relabel the good ideas contained within religion as science, philosophy etc. is because that, like ...

In order to survive and flourish, a society needs to have either a central authority which everybody...

Fernapple comments on Feb 26, 2022:

True, sometimes a unity of direction is a good thing, even if it is the wrong direction, at the very least it stops dangerous divisions developing. In modern America today we see that happening along lines of race, class, and politics, but the divisions are perhaps made even worse, by the fact ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 26, 2022:

@Lorajay, @skado Truth can find support in any one of a number of places, whether science, philosophy, politics, or popular consensus etc. etc., and religion may also contain truth, because there are no hard walls that keep human institutions apart, so that truth can move across all of them. Indeed religion may contain philosophy, science, art and even politics within itself. Therefore I can say, that for example Jesus ( Who may be fictional, metaphorical or a literal person being reported, it matters not which. ) speaks a truth when he says "Do unto others etc." . Yet I can also find support for that idea in several Philosophies, and it is quite correct to say that when he says that, then he is speaking as both a religious prophet and as a philosopher. But what sets religion apart from all those other human institutions, is that it is the only one which is capable of supporting any idea however truthful or untruthful, without having any requirement for that idea to be justified, proved or tested in any way. So that while it may contain a lot of truth, there is no lie, however bad that it is unable to find support or even respectability in any other human institution, which can not find a home and support in religion. Philosophy requires that it meet the requirements of logic, science that it does that and also that it is supported by evidence too, and even politics, at least democratic politics, requires that it meets the 'ad populum' test. The only test of truth required by religion is that someone is prepared to say "I believe". And it does not matter one jot if that belief is literal or metaphorical. And it is that which makes religion the natural habitat for lies, where untruth can most thrive and prosper, and makes it the greatest magnet and go to, for those in society who most wish to use deciet. Yes there are many in religion who have praised the search for truth, but most of those lived in more innocent ages in the past, often in ages and places, where the world offered no alternatives to religion or they were deluded. The most important thing to remember about deceit is that all the best and most successful liars, try to include as much truth as they possibly can with their deciet, both to cover the lie, and win them credibility. Therefore the inclusion of, and praise for truth within religion does not make it a source of truth or a reliable guarantor of truth. If I was being really hard indeed I would use the old saying that. "The loudest protest of innocence always comes from the most guilty." But I will leave that for now. Because it is needful to say that. As the other human institutions have grown in scope, power and veracity over the years, since the ancient times when religion was the only option. So people who wish to promote ...

In order to survive and flourish, a society needs to have either a central authority which everybody...

Fernapple comments on Feb 26, 2022:

True, sometimes a unity of direction is a good thing, even if it is the wrong direction, at the very least it stops dangerous divisions developing. In modern America today we see that happening along lines of race, class, and politics, but the divisions are perhaps made even worse, by the fact ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 26, 2022:

@Lorajay That is certainly another sourse of divide, but of course that exists in many other countries too, as do class, wealth, race and politics, and many more, all that I am saying is that it does not help to add another one, on exactly many of the same dividing lines.

In order to survive and flourish, a society needs to have either a central authority which everybody...

Fernapple comments on Feb 26, 2022:

True, sometimes a unity of direction is a good thing, even if it is the wrong direction, at the very least it stops dangerous divisions developing. In modern America today we see that happening along lines of race, class, and politics, but the divisions are perhaps made even worse, by the fact ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 26, 2022:

@skado No but correlation and causation are not mutually exclusive either, and sometimes in the complex mix of human culture, two things may feed one another in complex feedback loops, which always produce the result though it is hard to say which is the major cause. It may be that secular countries are more likely to be happier, or that happier countries are more likely to be secular, or that the two feed one another. Without alternate evidence the simplist explaination is often a complex uncertain mix, and generally the simplist explanation is the best assumption.

In order to survive and flourish, a society needs to have either a central authority which everybody...

Matias comments on Feb 26, 2022:

In Germany, there is no correlation between education and those who deny the importance of anti-Corona measures The so-called "Corona-deniers" as they are called here are rather equally devided between the right-wing extremists, who shout "F*ck the system!" - and a rather highly educated segment ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 26, 2022:

Fans of alterrnative medicine if that includes Homeopathy are certainly not highly educated, they are merely over educated in some spheres, there is a lot of pseudo-education in many countrie's and cult's education systems which mainly exists to block real education and understanding. Not just in the sense of false education promoting untruths, but just large masses of useless bulk which is packed into the education systems, often by those with hidden agendas like the religious lobbies, because they know that if children/students/teachers/graduates, waste enough time on them, there will be no time left for education which promotes real understanding. I knew a man in our village for example, who was regarded as highly educated because he had been to a very and I mean very highly regarded religious col. and was trained to write letters etc. in the most formal English and hand writing , of a type hardly anyone uses or even understands now, so that he was often employed informally, by locals, as a modern day scribe. Yet he had absolutely not the faintest understanding of even the most basic science such as the theory of natural sellection, and had never evebn heard that term. ( He had heard of evolution, but not natural sellection, and even had to have the term explained to him.)

I see that the old.

silverotter11 comments on Feb 26, 2022:

Good post. Not much to add as I agree with your assessment and the responses. It does affirm that I made a smart choice to become a member of agnostic.com

Fernapple replies on Feb 26, 2022:

Thank you.

Truth is the first casualty of war: [bbc.com]

ASTRALMAX comments on Feb 26, 2022:

Perhaps I got it wrong but I always thought that truth was the first casualty of politics....

Fernapple replies on Feb 26, 2022:

I think perhaps the two are not mutually exclusive. Nor are. Truth is the first casualty of religion, entertainment, courtship, and the advertizing industry, etc. etc. The truth is, truth is having a hard time.

Truth is the first casualty of war: [bbc.com]

puff comments on Feb 26, 2022:

Should be able to be proved either way quite easily. Does the island look like it was bombed? Or easier still, parade the prisoners to show proof of life.

Fernapple replies on Feb 26, 2022:

Yes, it should be possible to get an up to date satalite view.

Is morality objective or subjective?

Alienbeing comments on Feb 11, 2022:

You illustrate that you don't know the difference between Moral and Social Acceptability. You also don't seem to know that morals deal with a very limited aspect of life. Morals deal only with taking a life, or taking property. Everything else is either Ethics or Social Acceptability. Sex is not...

Fernapple replies on Feb 26, 2022:

@Alienbeing Sorry I forgot about this post, my deepest apologies. No, that idea contains the presupposition that doing harm is a bad thing, and my original comment if you remember, was that, you could only have objective morallity if you accept at least one presupposition. Someone could for example make the alternate presupposition. That we are products of evolution and therefore here to serve evolution. Doing harm to others therefore increases deaths, thereby quickening natural selection, and prolongs the life of the species by lessening over population. Therefore doing harm to other humans is the good and moral thing, and failing to do harm a bad thing. Or the traditional Christian presupposition, "God fearing". That we are here to obey God and that therefore we have to do what God says, even if that means harming others. I think that anyone who accepted either, would be a complete as###le, but I could not fault their logic, and one presupposition is no better than any other. My preference for agreeing with you that it is better not to harm living things, is purely subjective, given that I have made a subjective choice in my presuppositions.

Is Vladimir Putin the Joseph Stalin of his time?

Fernapple comments on Feb 25, 2022:

No I don't think so, Stalin was cynical and realistic to a criminal degree, where Putin is delusional, and almost certainly half believes his vision of his destiny.

Fernapple replies on Feb 25, 2022:

@anglophone I don't know.

I see that the old.

Betty comments on Feb 25, 2022:

In my opinion... As a people we naturally fear the unknown (the emotional), are curious (the intellectual), and need guidance and co-operation (governance). Religion addressed the fear and gave comfort, fulfilling the emotional, science addressed the intellectual, and government/policies addressed...

Fernapple replies on Feb 25, 2022:

Yes that is very true..

I see that the old.

FvckY0u comments on Feb 25, 2022:

I have no dog in this fight. I only feel compelled to comment. Perhaps compelled by a god?

Fernapple replies on Feb 25, 2022:

Not backing either dog no, just going to throw my own in the ring yes.

I see that the old.

Deb57 comments on Feb 25, 2022:

Human beings exploiting one another probably occurred in tandem with spoken language, possibly even before that. Exploitation of others is a very human trait. Religion is a tool for exploitation, whether or not it was the reason man created it.

Fernapple replies on Feb 25, 2022:

Yes I wholy agree. The only real suppliment to that in my post, is to say that the element of exploitation, has perhaps become a greater part of it over time.

I see that the old.

Garban comments on Feb 25, 2022:

I concur with your position almost completely. Early religion was developed when people started becoming “creative” to satisfy the questions that naturally came with that gift.(IMO 77k BCE?) We had to wear this yoke of religion to get though a “threshold” so we could apply our ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 25, 2022:

I am sorry but I think that that is a near perfect sum of the history, so I can not offer any constructive criticism, however much I would like.

As far as cosmology is concerned, I’m a thoroughgoing materialist.

Fernapple comments on Feb 24, 2022:

Nope. That is just the original sin fallacy, dressed up in fancy clothes.

Fernapple replies on Feb 25, 2022:

@JeffMurray Thank you.

I see that the old.

Sookiesue comments on Feb 25, 2022:

Just my opinion of course, and not based on facts but My guess is some caveman types looked up at the sun and probably saw an eclipse or something, Didn’t understand what was happening, And started feeling a bit superstitious. There’s always one brilliant jack ass in the crowd who wants to ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 25, 2022:

Crime, especially criminal males seaking to gain access to more females, especially in the days before money, was no doubt a part of it from the beginning. But in the early days there was no doubt also a lot of genuine attempts at understanding, and improvement of life, and many a village shaman offered genuine cures from his bag of herbs and accurately read the signs to predict the salmon run, while asking no more than a fair price. And there is no doubt much good in it today, but I would say that the proportions have changed, and will probably continue to do so.

I see that the old.

OldMetalHead comments on Feb 25, 2022:

As I noted in replying to Skado's post, I do find this topic fascinating. I haven't read any compelling arguments for any religion having a net-benefit in post-industrial age modern society. Maybe the net-benefit is still there in the few primitive societies that still exist. I do recognize that ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 25, 2022:

I think having seen your posts, that you have a mind well ventilated but not too open to all the wind.

I see that the old.

Buttercup comments on Feb 25, 2022:

I'd like to add a proviso, no intellectually honest analysis can be made when religion is a catch all term for an contradictory array of beliefs. The islamo-christian model that dominates the world, an anthropomorphic all knowing ruler of an after life paradise probably couldn't have existed prior ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 25, 2022:

Yes that is a good proviso, I did not want to make the post too long so I had to leave a lot out, sorry. And of course it should be said that when the old pre-agriculture religions failed, the first response was naturally. "We need to make a better religion." Which led to the birth of the post agriculture religions like Abrahamic monotheism which also failed, was reinvented as Christianity failed again, was reinvented as Orthodocs, failed again etc. etc.., And there is certainly no hard edge between say science, and religion, and even some things like Buddhism which are perhaps half religion and half philosophy.

I see that the old.

DenoPenno comments on Feb 25, 2022:

I see it as religion being invented to supply answers when we had no answers. God belief of some sort explained everything. The argument then became "my god is better than your god." Science and reason came along and the religious went back and forth with them on which one was right. I found this ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 25, 2022:

All very true, a good overview. Though I was perhaps using the word politics in more of the original meaning, "to take part in the civic life", rather than the modern one. And maybe it is worth mentioning that the political life of the USA, is far from typical of the world. Epecially the developed western world, where especially in those countries where religion has almost gone now, the state /politics is seen as being mostly concerned with welfare and social responsibility.

We must all remember that there are good people everywhere.

Sticks48 comments on Feb 25, 2022:

I knew Pukin was ruthless, but l thought he was smarter than this.

Fernapple replies on Feb 25, 2022:

Every driven person, who sees only one direction and understands only one way foreward, is bound to overstretch themselves sooner or later.

As far as cosmology is concerned, I’m a thoroughgoing materialist.

Fernapple comments on Feb 24, 2022:

Nope. That is just the original sin fallacy, dressed up in fancy clothes.

Fernapple replies on Feb 25, 2022:

@skado No, religion existed and had existed for a long time before agriculture, and it probably did a very good job of addressing the pre-agriculture problems. (Though not perfect, nothing ever is.) It was only modern organized religion which mainly appeared after agriculture. In an attempt to use the existing religious traditions, to address the mismatches the new life created. That attempt however failed, because the pre-civilization and pre-agricultural precepts that religion brought with it, simply could not rise to the challenge. And it failed so conspicuously, that it became needful therefore, even by as early as a thousand BCE to invent philosophy, and its child science, to address that failing to provide the intellectual understanding the new world required. And the proof of religions failing, is simply that institutions like philosophy and science exist at all, since if religion had succeeded in addressing the problems of the mismatch, they would never have been invented. While at the same time, politics was invented to address religions failing to address the problems of social justice that agriculture brought with it, secular art and sport, because religion could no longer address the settled populations need for the stimulation, that hunter gathering had once provided, and religion had failed to replace. Law because the old traditions of religion in insuring personal justice no longer worked. Medicine because the pre-agricultural healing systems of religion were no longer adequate for a growing population, literature and news media, because going to the temple for a ritual was no longer equal to the task of spreading information as well as required. All these institutions and more, grew because of the gap left by failing religion, which was once all virtually all of human culture. And all of them became better at their task as they purified themselves of the baggage they inherited from pre-civilized religion. Sport for just one example, probably started in places like Minoan Crete with rituals like bull jumping which were mainly religious rituals, but by the time of the early Olympic games, religious ritual had become a side show to the main secular event, and when eventually the chariots raced in the circus, no one ever bothered to talk about the pre-race blessing and many probably never turned up in time for it. And as the institutions of, philosophy, science, art, sport, politics, law, medicine etc. have grown in both scope and effectiveness, religion has a problem, very like the god of the gaps problem, but on a purely human scale. Where is there still, a human need for what it has to offer, is there any human institution which is not capable of creating its own structure, ideology, mythos, and useful fictions, more effectively ...

Guest on Pillow Man-affiliated talk show thinks it's suspicious that anti-vaxxers keep getting COVID

PondartIncbendog comments on Feb 24, 2022:

Oh no. But we did plan it, didn't we guys?

Fernapple replies on Feb 24, 2022:

Sorry but I don't think we are that smart. LOl

I live in the bible belt and it's getting worst being around those people who keep believing this is...

Gwendolyn2018 comments on Feb 23, 2022:

I live in MO and no one has jumped my derriere about not being Xtian in years--and I am very open about being an atheist. When I worked at Walmart over 20 years ago, I was pagan and there was one other pagan working there. She got dumped on consistently for being pagan, but no one ever said ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 23, 2022:

Yes I think you saw it well.

“If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you.

Fernapple comments on Feb 21, 2022:

Thousands of years of effort have gone into finding ways, to make dogs like humans. Thousands of years of effort have gone into finding ways, to make humans hate humans.

Fernapple replies on Feb 21, 2022:

@Petter True, but that is not perhaps the only difference. Humans have also developed many different cultural and media mechanisms, for conditioning and programing fellow humans into being aggresive in quite unnatural ways at the will of their political and capitalist masters, for the profit and power of those masters, regardless of the harm done to, either, those deployed as aggressors or those attacked. It would be very strange if along with improvements in physical weapons like spears, mental and cultural weapons and methods of brain washing had not also improved, and been made more refined as technology advanced.

MURDER MOST FOWL Is it ethical to kill animals if you then eat them?

puff comments on Feb 21, 2022:

Death is a part of life. You kill for necessity as a part of life. You will die as a part of life. When killing becomes fun or a selfish pastime, that's a problem. The olde "waste not want not" principle sort of applies. If you are going to kill, try to utilise all parts of the animal or ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 21, 2022:

Not sure about left to waste. Nothing in nature is ever really wasted, anything left out is food for the scavengers, and the recycling organisms.

In 20 words or less, can you define the symmetry here?

Fernapple comments on Feb 21, 2022:

Yes. The size of the buttocks, is in inverse proportion to that of the brain.

Fernapple replies on Feb 21, 2022:

@anglophone Just waiting for the angry replies from the, anti narrow doorway lobby, on here.

“Roughly forty-three thousand years ago a young cave bear died in the rolling hills on the ...

waitingforgodo comments on Feb 21, 2022:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1syDCEn_XOw

Fernapple replies on Feb 21, 2022:

And yet the irony is, that it is said that Mozart who wrote many concertos for the flute, plus an opera about one, claimed that he hated the flute. And it is said he only wrote so much for it because his closest friend was a player. I wonder if The Magic Flute, was like so much of his output, an ironic joke.

Why I walked away from the faith of my youth, by Dan Foster. [link.medium.com]

Fernapple comments on Feb 20, 2022:

Wow, that is one long list. Especially given that any one of those should be enough.

Fernapple replies on Feb 20, 2022:

@Reignmond come visit Europe sometime, you would find yourself much more at home.

i see lots of posts depicting belief, believers, religion etc.

Fernapple comments on Feb 20, 2022:

A lot of anti-religion posts are made by new members, who are often looking for affirmation, reassurance and community. So they make obvious statements about religion in order to reassure themselves that they are in the right place, and in the hope that that will earn them credit with the new ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 20, 2022:

@Ryo1 True, but I don't think it is all that sad that new people try to fit in, by posting obvious stuff intended to please. That is just what all people new to any community do, and it is a natural part of life. You have to find your feet in any new community and learn what it is about, and most people when they are unsure, and want to make friends, try to be people pleaser's. Except of course for the sociopathic narcissists who start by telling the community that they are wrong, and only the newby has all the answers, but they are sadly, a natural part of life too. And fortunately I have heard people on here say that they know nice believers, and that has been met with approval, so hopefully we are a little better than a hate echo-chamber.

Because it's been in the news lately, whether Jewish is a race, culture, religion or ethnicity.

Fernapple comments on Feb 19, 2022:

1. Biologically there are no human races, race is not a scientific usage, the idea of it only exists in folklore. ( So nobody belongs to any race.) 2. Of the traditional folklore races, the Jewish belief spans nearly all of them, and so it could only be called a multiracial belief, even if races...

Fernapple replies on Feb 20, 2022:

@Matias You miss the point, which is that word "race", as the scientific community use the term, is a technical term, with a strict definition, within, ( the admittedly subjective, ) science of taxonomy, and the human subdivisions made over the last seventy thousand years or so by accumulated mutation, ( Which is no time at all in evolutionary terms. ) simply do not meet the qualifications for that term. And neither I think do most dog breeds. Though dogs are much more diverse than humans, since genes from the grey wolf were probably intoduced several times. If you wish to take issue with the scientific community, and have the rules of taxonomy changed, you are welcome to do so no doubt. Or if you want to use, what Astralmax in a serious comment calls a, "social construct", and I call, "folklore" in a humorous light hearted comment, since, social construct and folklore mean nearly the same thing, that is your privilege, then you are once again welcome.

Evangelical Christians looking for renewal should look to the margins The crisis of church and ...

Wangobango3 comments on Feb 20, 2022:

Evangelicals are not Christians. They are cultists.

Fernapple replies on Feb 20, 2022:

Yet sadly it is the once mainstream moderate churches, which will fade, until only the cult remains. In part because the cultists will drive the moderates away.

Because it's been in the news lately, whether Jewish is a race, culture, religion or ethnicity.

Fernapple comments on Feb 19, 2022:

1. Biologically there are no human races, race is not a scientific usage, the idea of it only exists in folklore. ( So nobody belongs to any race.) 2. Of the traditional folklore races, the Jewish belief spans nearly all of them, and so it could only be called a multiracial belief, even if races...

Fernapple replies on Feb 19, 2022:

@Matias But would they think that a black West Highland Terrier, was any different from a white Westy, or would they recognize them as the same breed. And that is the point, because the human race passed through a genetic bottle neck only a few thousand years ago, we are all so closely related that we count as one family in genetic terms. There is in fact more genetic diversity in the average family of chimps than the whole human species. It is a very technical point but in biology our variations do not count as races, as technically recognized in other species, just at most, colour forms of the same race.

I am enjoying these facts today.

Fernapple comments on Feb 19, 2022:

You would need six files, at least.

Fernapple replies on Feb 19, 2022:

@Julie808 Circumference of the equator is just over forty thousand kilometres, which at one person per metre is forty million, or aprox. one person in eighty, so you would need eighty lines !

Because it's been in the news lately, whether Jewish is a race, culture, religion or ethnicity.

Fernapple comments on Feb 19, 2022:

1. Biologically there are no human races, race is not a scientific usage, the idea of it only exists in folklore. ( So nobody belongs to any race.) 2. Of the traditional folklore races, the Jewish belief spans nearly all of them, and so it could only be called a multiracial belief, even if races...

Fernapple replies on Feb 19, 2022:

@ASTRALMAX Which means more or less the same thing as , folklore, thank you for the confirmation.

Because it's been in the news lately, whether Jewish is a race, culture, religion or ethnicity.

Fernapple comments on Feb 19, 2022:

1. Biologically there are no human races, race is not a scientific usage, the idea of it only exists in folklore. ( So nobody belongs to any race.) 2. Of the traditional folklore races, the Jewish belief spans nearly all of them, and so it could only be called a multiracial belief, even if races...

Fernapple replies on Feb 19, 2022:

@Julie808 Good I am pleased they run out of room. If the state is stupid enough to ask a stupid question, then they should realize that no matter how big the box, there will never be enogh room for all the stupid in the world. LOL

Perhaps some day. Could it be done safely? It would be amazing! What else is retirement for? 😁

FrayedBear comments on Feb 17, 2022:

That's if you get out of Cape Town alive!

Fernapple replies on Feb 19, 2022:

@FrayedBear Georgia, Armenia, Sudan, Siberia, Lebanon, Syria. It looks like a route chosen to pass through just about every westerner unfriendly, unstable, and paranoid place on earth.

Two four-year-olds, a boy and a girl, compare their bodies.

Fernapple comments on Feb 17, 2022:

Two four-year-olds, a boy and a girl, compare their bodies. Says the boy as he lowers his pants, “Ha ha, I have this and I bet you don’t!” Replies the little girl as she lowers hers. “I bet, you never knew that Catholics and Protestants were this different !”

Fernapple replies on Feb 19, 2022:

@yvilletom No I am not a Catholic, I just know a few.

Because…..Ignorance is my downfall?!?!?

Dyl1983 comments on Feb 18, 2022:

Stupid man... It's spelt with a K!

Fernapple replies on Feb 19, 2022:

There is no K in light. So there.

my ego wants to kill me, and my pride wants to help it

Robecology comments on Feb 18, 2022:

Being a nihilist I get it....but some day you will be getting married and then it will be decision/ego time; Chose wisely...

Fernapple replies on Feb 18, 2022:

Sadly it probably is not about ego, or pride, but an even more basic emotion, bordom. The speed drunk monkey will probably destroy the world just to have a few more seconds playing stupid games. And is too lazy to learn to entertain itself with learning to appreciate the world around it, which costs nothing.

"It is curious that while good people go to great length to spare their children from suffering, few...

Fernapple comments on Feb 17, 2022:

Could not agree more. And as the good party times for the human race are almost certainly coming to an end, and the future is probably bleak to a degree we have never seen before. That is more true than ever.

Fernapple replies on Feb 18, 2022:

@Matias No I don't know him. I will look him up thanks.

Perhaps some day. Could it be done safely? It would be amazing! What else is retirement for? 😁

FrayedBear comments on Feb 17, 2022:

That's if you get out of Cape Town alive!

Fernapple replies on Feb 18, 2022:

Looking at that route, there would be a lot more to worry about than Cape Town.

Perhaps some day. Could it be done safely? It would be amazing! What else is retirement for? 😁

FrayedBear comments on Feb 17, 2022:

That's 3.09 mph. x 561 days @ 8 hours per day.

Fernapple replies on Feb 18, 2022:

Best to allow at least a couple of years, to be on the safe side.

Who takes vitamins in large quantities?

ChestRockfield comments on Feb 18, 2022:

The problem is the fat soluble vitamins A, D, E, & K. The rest you can just pee out.

Fernapple replies on Feb 18, 2022:

My father always used to joke that beer was called vitamin "P" because you pee it out very quickly.

Do we need religion to create a moral society? - Ask A Bitchface II

Julie808 comments on Feb 18, 2022:

Agree, good answer! For those who didn't click on the link, the answer was: "I don't think religion has anything to do with morality. If you're doing the right thing because your religion told you so, that is not moral → that’s ‘obedient’. If anything, I actually think religion is ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 18, 2022:

Religion is the realm of the immoral. Because it is the only human intellectual system which demands no proof or justification for ideas. If you want to justify an idea philosophicaly, then you must prove that it is logical, scientifically that it is supported by evidence, politically that you can get a majority vote for it. So if you have an idea which is immoral and impossible to justify, there is only one place you can go to find support, friends, and an echo chamber. So that religion naturally becomes the go to for the immoral and anti social.

You can take the beaver out of nature, perhaps sadly, but you can not so easily take nature out of ...

Sticks48 comments on Feb 17, 2022:

I know l have always enjoyed my up close and personal relationships with beavers. 😁

Fernapple replies on Feb 18, 2022:

Now why do I get the idea that this involves one of you biting the pillow ?

[youtu.

Fernapple comments on Feb 17, 2022:

Great, one of the best short satires we had in a long time. Would it be possible you could post a text of the lyrics ?

Fernapple replies on Feb 18, 2022:

@fishline79 Thanks for he warning, but I do have a bookstore locally who manage to get me American books at little extra charge, I don't know how they do it but it works. Sadly I am barred from Amazon.

Two four-year-olds, a boy and a girl, compare their bodies.

Fernapple comments on Feb 17, 2022:

Two four-year-olds, a boy and a girl, compare their bodies. Says the boy as he lowers his pants, “Ha ha, I have this and I bet you don’t!” Replies the little girl as she lowers hers. “I bet, you never knew that Catholics and Protestants were this different !”

Fernapple replies on Feb 18, 2022:

@yvilletom So are Catholics, they just have to tell the priest all about it in great detail afterwards.

I don't find it lonely at all but I suppose some people do and for those people there is church.

Sgt_Spanky comments on Feb 17, 2022:

This is actually a valid question: why don't atheists come together to celebrate their shared rationality and practical worldview. I think it's because we have no dedicated structures to gather together. Xians have over 300,000 churches they can meet in while we'd have to rent thelocal Kiwanis Hall...

Fernapple replies on Feb 17, 2022:

@ASTRALMAX True, but of course that means that there is no unifying direction for the collective culture either. And sometimes a unity of direction is a good thing even if it is the wrong direction, at the very least it stops dangerous divisions developing. In modern America today we see that happening along lines of race, class, and politics, but the divisions are perhaps made even worse, by the fact that, the same fault line which divides the nation along those lines, is exactly the same fault line which divides those who get their understanding and morals from religion, and those who get their understanding and morals from secular education. In the end if you want to avoid violent and destructive civil strife, there is something to be said for promoting a single moral direction, perhaps not to the degree of becoming oppressive, but certainly to the point where most people hold enough of an affection for most of it, that they can reach compromise on most things. And if you are going to promote a single set of values, as the main if not the only, direction for your society. Then unfortunately you are forced to pick one and one only, because the point of directions is that you can never go in two at once. And if you are going to pick one, then I would choose the best one if you can, which to my mind means the ideals of reason, which are philosophy, scepticism, secular education and yes science.

[youtu.

Fernapple comments on Feb 17, 2022:

Great, one of the best short satires we had in a long time. Would it be possible you could post a text of the lyrics ?

Fernapple replies on Feb 17, 2022:

@fishline79 Thank you.

I don't find it lonely at all but I suppose some people do and for those people there is church.

Sgt_Spanky comments on Feb 17, 2022:

This is actually a valid question: why don't atheists come together to celebrate their shared rationality and practical worldview. I think it's because we have no dedicated structures to gather together. Xians have over 300,000 churches they can meet in while we'd have to rent thelocal Kiwanis Hall...

Fernapple replies on Feb 17, 2022:

@ASTRALMAX The real new religion is the commercial media, it is shallow, cheap, demands no effort, and is short on intellect, perfect. Why would you require religion or science ?

I don't find it lonely at all but I suppose some people do and for those people there is church.

Sgt_Spanky comments on Feb 17, 2022:

This is actually a valid question: why don't atheists come together to celebrate their shared rationality and practical worldview. I think it's because we have no dedicated structures to gather together. Xians have over 300,000 churches they can meet in while we'd have to rent thelocal Kiwanis Hall...

Fernapple replies on Feb 17, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay Its hard to define a group by a negative. There are not many, we don't play golf societies, either.

Gorillas and God: Evolutionary Roots of Religion by Dr.

Fernapple comments on Feb 17, 2022:

Sorry it may be interesting, but the pay wall is just too much.

Fernapple replies on Feb 17, 2022:

@skado No, thanks will give it a go.

Why is an abuser still working as a priest? [bbc.com]

ChestRockfield comments on Feb 16, 2022:

Why was an abuser working as president for 4 years?

Fernapple replies on Feb 17, 2022:

@JeffMurray Small joke. I meant that for that, there could be some in the maga cult members writing you name on a bullet right now.

Why is an abuser still working as a priest? [bbc.com]

ChestRockfield comments on Feb 16, 2022:

Why was an abuser working as president for 4 years?

Fernapple replies on Feb 17, 2022:

I hope you are a fast moving target.

I don't find it lonely at all but I suppose some people do and for those people there is church.

Sgt_Spanky comments on Feb 17, 2022:

This is actually a valid question: why don't atheists come together to celebrate their shared rationality and practical worldview. I think it's because we have no dedicated structures to gather together. Xians have over 300,000 churches they can meet in while we'd have to rent thelocal Kiwanis Hall...

Fernapple replies on Feb 17, 2022:

The Xians have a thousand year start. But we have begun, perhaps more so here in Europe than in the US, we do have secular learning groups, like the University Of The Third Age, public libraries, many secular charities all with shops on the high street, atheist groups, some of which in this county often perform weddings and funerals, perhaps more than church ones now, and web sites like this of course.

Why, yes we will.

Fernapple comments on Feb 16, 2022:

Well I would hope to survive long enough, to view a few more pretty ladies in tight vests before I kick the bucket. Are you not going to post a photo of you modeling it for us ?

Fernapple replies on Feb 16, 2022:

@Sookiesue Nice pic, and it did turn out upright.

Is morality objective or subjective?

Alienbeing comments on Feb 11, 2022:

You illustrate that you don't know the difference between Moral and Social Acceptability. You also don't seem to know that morals deal with a very limited aspect of life. Morals deal only with taking a life, or taking property. Everything else is either Ethics or Social Acceptability. Sex is not...

Fernapple replies on Feb 16, 2022:

@Alienbeing If there is an objective basis for morality then show one, many wise people have been searching for one for centuries, if you have got one then I am sure the world would love to hear it. Many have tried, from Plato, and Epicurus to Nietzsche, and all failed to some degree. I am sure that if you have one, then the Noble peace prize, at least, is a given, and that is a lot of money . The nearest that anyone ever did come to finding one, that I know of, was Kant, with his universalization principle, and that is certainly not very strongly objective. Yes adulthood is all about acceptance, it is the about the acceptance of the gradual losing of our delusions. Beginning with the central, and most childish one, which our parents care instills in us, that we are the centre of the universe, and that universe exists for us. Which is an inevitable delusion, since the only universe we know as children, is our parents, and we are, unless we are very unlucky, the centre of that. We then find that, the children at school will not want to be with us, and we will not receive attention, unless we have something to offer. And when we have accepted that, and that serving the community is our only way to succeed in gaining something worthwhile. Then we have to learn to accept that the community, family and friends, we devote ourselves to, is itself is of no importance in the great scheme of things, and may be swept away by by as little as one politicians signature on a piece of paper. And so it goes on, until we learn to accept that all of human life is trivial to the greater universe, and we have to accept that even the greatest humans, and our heros, can not hope to leave a legacy that will outlast a few trivial millenia. And finally we have to learn, to accept, that any cynical view which understanding of the triviallity of our lives that may lead us to, and with it, the idea that evil is of equal worth, to good. Does not buy us any freedom or joy either, and that therefore, giving to our community and fellow creature on this planet, does not make us moral heros or any great thing like that, but that we must do it, just because the freedom that evil suppossedly gives is just a delusion too, and that we are good and should try our very best to be good, simply because there is nothing else to do.

Humans are conditioned by nature, as an evolved survival strategy to save time and energy, back in ...

AnneWimsey comments on Feb 14, 2022:

To use a pejorative like "lazy" when All creatures practice using less calories (to increase survival) is not accurate at all! To use the term "cowardly" when 99.9% of the time it is the safe & sane thing to do because Any injury, for Any creature, before doctors/hospitals, almost always meant ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 15, 2022:

@AnneWimsey You are looking at it perhaps from a trans-Atlantic point of view. You see, sometimes I forget that it is an international site, and in the UK using words like that would mainly be seen as humour and affectionately ironic. It may have been better to say something like, humans are conditioned by nature. There altered it now, is that better.

Humans are conditioned by nature, as an evolved survival strategy to save time and energy, back in ...

Matias comments on Feb 14, 2022:

I lie can be convoluted and complex (like some conspiracy theories) And a truth can be simple and easy to grasp, like for example the basic ideas of Darwinian Evolution.

Fernapple replies on Feb 15, 2022:

@AnneWimsey Yep sorry my mistake, we need to remember the gays, and you forgot some of the Communists. See it not easy, but that is in part what makes it worth doing.

Humans are conditioned by nature, as an evolved survival strategy to save time and energy, back in ...

Matias comments on Feb 14, 2022:

I lie can be convoluted and complex (like some conspiracy theories) And a truth can be simple and easy to grasp, like for example the basic ideas of Darwinian Evolution.

Fernapple replies on Feb 15, 2022:

@Matias Quite, but if it is simplified is it still, always, a truth ? For a perfect example your. "The Nazis killed about 6 million Jews during WWII" is a simpification of a statement which could also include "plus between 250,000 and 500,000 Romani and Sinti, and large numbers of disabled." Then to know if it was a lie or not, you would then have to inquire what the motivation of the person doing the simplification was. Were they just being lazy themselves and or trying to make it easier for other people. In which case it is a truth, but only a part truth. Or did they have a reason to leave those out. Many Romani claim that that part of the story is often deliberately left out, by racist people who want to deny them their rights and don't want them to get recognition and simpathy. Which may be true or not, but if it was, then it would make the simplification then a deliberate lie. But here is the centre of my point. Because in addition, if the person doing the simplification, as a lie, was aware, even unconciously at the back of their mind, that a simplified story is more likely to be passed on and propagated more widely than a more difficult complex one, and thought that was a good thing. Then they would be deliberately exploiting that human bias in favour of simplification, to propagate their message more widely.

Humans are conditioned by nature, as an evolved survival strategy to save time and energy, back in ...

yvilletom comments on Feb 14, 2022:

Judgmental much? Yes.

Fernapple replies on Feb 14, 2022:

No lazy and cowardly are not judgemental, that is not what the post is about, I accept them as a given and am even proud to call myself lazy and cowardly , and think that the world would probably be a better place if people were more of both. The point is, that things which are part of our nature and are often useful, can under some other circumstances be exploited and used against us.

Humans are conditioned by nature, as an evolved survival strategy to save time and energy, back in ...

AnneWimsey comments on Feb 14, 2022:

To use a pejorative like "lazy" when All creatures practice using less calories (to increase survival) is not accurate at all! To use the term "cowardly" when 99.9% of the time it is the safe & sane thing to do because Any injury, for Any creature, before doctors/hospitals, almost always meant ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 14, 2022:

Oh I do not hate my species for being lazy and cowardly, in fact lazy and cowardly are qualities I admire, and in nature I do not even regard them as pejorative. Lazy and cowardly are not judgemental, that is not what the post is about, I accept them as a given and am even proud to call myself lazy and cowardly , and think that the world would probably be a better place if people were more of both. The point is, that things which are part of our nature and are often useful, can under some other circumstances be exploited and used against us.

Humans are conditioned by nature, as an evolved survival strategy to save time and energy, back in ...

Matias comments on Feb 14, 2022:

I lie can be convoluted and complex (like some conspiracy theories) And a truth can be simple and easy to grasp, like for example the basic ideas of Darwinian Evolution.

Fernapple replies on Feb 14, 2022:

Yes. But the point is that sometimes a lie can be made deliberately simple, because that is known to be more appealing than a complex answer, whether that be a complex truth or a complex lie. While the truth is either complex or not, and can not be changed.

Is morality objective or subjective?

Alienbeing comments on Feb 11, 2022:

You illustrate that you don't know the difference between Moral and Social Acceptability. You also don't seem to know that morals deal with a very limited aspect of life. Morals deal only with taking a life, or taking property. Everything else is either Ethics or Social Acceptability. Sex is not...

Fernapple replies on Feb 14, 2022:

@Alienbeing There is no objective basis for morality, believing something is moral, "IS" the only proof of morality, and it is a purely subjective one. Adulthood is about acceptance, and accepting that your most dearly held beliefs are purely subjective, and without grounding, is perhaps the most important piece of that acceptance. We have been having this conversation now for a long time, and if you had any objective proof of morality, you only needed to bring it out, and I would gratefully accept that the conversation is over and I was wrong and have learned something. For myself I accept at least two basic arguments for morality, which I live by. The first being that there is no doubt that we all have moral instincts, such as empathy, pity and revulsion. And that those moral instincts must have an evolutionary origin, and are therefore are rooted in natural law, which should inform our choices, and that it is moral therefore to listen to our moral instincts. The second is. That if I grant a prerequisite, such as it would be better to live in a happy world, and that being kind and generous to everyone without special favour, is likely to help bring that about. Then it is moral to be kind and generous. But I have to admit that neither is in any way, an objective proof. The first because it is nebulous, and does not directly lead to any defined laws. And the second because it requires a prerequisite, "it would be better to live in a happy world", and as I said to themiddleway at the beginning, I can only derive morality given a prerequisite, and that means it is not truly objective.

Can you choose what to believe?

Fernapple comments on Feb 14, 2022:

At best, you can only choose from the selection offered to you by your brain via your own experiences, and those ideas offered to you by your own culture. Which means that the ideas of cultures you have no contact with, and ideas which no one including yourself have ever thought of, are forever off ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 14, 2022:

@ASTRALMAX Yes agreed. I deviated somewhat from the subject along my own paths, but you are much closer to the answer August1 wanted I am sure.

Northern hemisphere ?

Killtheskyfairy comments on Feb 13, 2022:

Spanish guitar, dance, and food are amazing! I spent two unforgettable weeks there!

Fernapple replies on Feb 13, 2022:

@Killtheskyfairy Do try some Fado music, if you have a bit of spare time, its a bit of an acquired taste but it soaks into your inner being.

I think it was posed not 'shopped but awesome either way

Diaco comments on Feb 13, 2022:

immediately :D

Fernapple replies on Feb 13, 2022:

So we know where you were looking then. LOL

I think it was posed not 'shopped but awesome either way

racocn8 comments on Feb 13, 2022:

About 23 seconds.

Fernapple replies on Feb 13, 2022:

Yep, about the same. My excuse is that I do not usually fixate about those areas.

Northern hemisphere ?

Killtheskyfairy comments on Feb 13, 2022:

Spanish guitar, dance, and food are amazing! I spent two unforgettable weeks there!

Fernapple replies on Feb 13, 2022:

Only about tens days for me, but I have spent a lot of time in the next door Portugal. I am half convinced that for all the fancy theories about the cause of happiness, it only really needs warm sunshine, but that may be just a view from a damp gloomy little island in the north.

Mainly fun, but an interesting plant all the same. [youtube.com]

MikeInBatonRouge comments on Feb 13, 2022:

Does it deter deer? I am trying to imagine a garden application. Could add it to poison oak garden, I suppose. 🌵

Fernapple replies on Feb 13, 2022:

I don't know if it keeps deer off, but in north Africa they use Prickly Pear as hedging to keepanimals out. So maybe.

Did religion give an advantage to pre-industrial revolution societies?

Fernapple comments on Feb 13, 2022:

Some religions may have, some may have been harmful and a few may have totally destroyed their societies. Societies, states and cultures, in the past especially, were many and varied, as were religions. Some say that for example, ( It is debatable. ) the ecology of Easter Island was destroyed, ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 13, 2022:

@Garban my pleasure.

Forget the symbolism of martyrdom and righteous devotion to blind faith, do you not find it utterly ...

Fernapple comments on Feb 13, 2022:

I don't know, I live in the UK and you hardly ever see that here.

Fernapple replies on Feb 13, 2022:

@Matias There are a few, but I live in the country where being nominal Anglican is still the only option. Have not seen a cross openly round anyones neck for ages.

Is morality objective or subjective?

Alienbeing comments on Feb 11, 2022:

You illustrate that you don't know the difference between Moral and Social Acceptability. You also don't seem to know that morals deal with a very limited aspect of life. Morals deal only with taking a life, or taking property. Everything else is either Ethics or Social Acceptability. Sex is not...

Fernapple replies on Feb 13, 2022:

@Alienbeing No they were both moral, they may have been mistaken about their ideas, but they were moral. And that is the point, morallity can be mistaken and misguided, because there is no objective basis for it save what our culture tells us, since our cultural addiction is more than strong enough to override our natural instincts for things like empathy, and pity.

You know what? OCD just doesn’t play fair, man.. 😫

glennlab comments on Feb 12, 2022:

That used to work for me, but I've lost the sense of shame my grandmother instilled in me.

Fernapple replies on Feb 13, 2022:

Me too.

It just blows my mind that after thousands of years of evolution and intellectual advancement, ...

skado comments on Feb 12, 2022:

Beliefs don’t have to be factually true in order to be adaptively true.

Fernapple replies on Feb 13, 2022:

Yep, if you toss a coin it can tell you the correct way to turn at a road junction, at least half the time. But fortunately we live in an age of maps and statnavs.

Ain't religion grand!?

TheMiddleWay comments on Feb 12, 2022:

I recently came upon judges 19. In that story, a man has guests over and a mob shows up wanting to rape the male guest. The owner of the house, and sense that this request, said why don't you take my daughter instead and the man's concubine? To which the mob agreed and raped them throughout the ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 12, 2022:

Yes the basic story appears at least twice, the bibles other problem is that it tends to repeat itself. ( You would think that the scribes had not got their act together and were randomly plagiarizing each other. When everyone knows that god wrote it all. )LOL

Where there's a will ...

NostraDumbass comments on Feb 12, 2022:

You mean her

Fernapple replies on Feb 12, 2022:

No the females always get it right, just like the human ones, did you not know that.

Is morality objective or subjective?

Alienbeing comments on Feb 11, 2022:

You illustrate that you don't know the difference between Moral and Social Acceptability. You also don't seem to know that morals deal with a very limited aspect of life. Morals deal only with taking a life, or taking property. Everything else is either Ethics or Social Acceptability. Sex is not...

Fernapple replies on Feb 12, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay Give it a couple more attemps then I quit.

Is morality objective or subjective?

Alienbeing comments on Feb 11, 2022:

You illustrate that you don't know the difference between Moral and Social Acceptability. You also don't seem to know that morals deal with a very limited aspect of life. Morals deal only with taking a life, or taking property. Everything else is either Ethics or Social Acceptability. Sex is not...

Fernapple replies on Feb 12, 2022:

@Alienbeing No, but what we are saying is, that we can not prove that our view of what is moral and what is not, is any more valid than anyone elses. So the burden of proof is on you who claim that you can. As you say the argument that something is moral just because a culture does it, does not hold water, and so neither does your argument that just because you and your culture hold that murder is immoral prove that it is so, nor even does my or your feeling that I think that it would be far better to live in a culture that does. To an ancient Aztec the argument that you would let the earth dry up and the crops and all the people starve, because you are not willing to kill a single stranger , would seem immoral. The question is, what argument would you use to persuade an Aztec that he was mistaken and killing was immoral, without first disproving his persupposition that it was demanded by the gods, and replacing it with your own presupposition that it is better to minimize murder because minimizing pain is always a good thing.

Is morality objective or subjective?

Alienbeing comments on Feb 11, 2022:

You illustrate that you don't know the difference between Moral and Social Acceptability. You also don't seem to know that morals deal with a very limited aspect of life. Morals deal only with taking a life, or taking property. Everything else is either Ethics or Social Acceptability. Sex is not...

Fernapple replies on Feb 12, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay, @Alienbeing Oh I can easily see that is immoral, What I am saying is that, I can not PROOVE that it is immoral.

Is morality objective or subjective?

Alienbeing comments on Feb 11, 2022:

You illustrate that you don't know the difference between Moral and Social Acceptability. You also don't seem to know that morals deal with a very limited aspect of life. Morals deal only with taking a life, or taking property. Everything else is either Ethics or Social Acceptability. Sex is not...

Fernapple replies on Feb 12, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay Yep that is another good example. Though I think that the human sacrifice one is a little stronger, since war has always had a slightly wquestionable reputation, while religious rituals have often been seen as the hight of morality.

Is morality objective or subjective?

Alienbeing comments on Feb 11, 2022:

You illustrate that you don't know the difference between Moral and Social Acceptability. You also don't seem to know that morals deal with a very limited aspect of life. Morals deal only with taking a life, or taking property. Everything else is either Ethics or Social Acceptability. Sex is not...

Fernapple replies on Feb 12, 2022:

@Alienbeing No I am not saying that murder is OK, just that there is no absolutist argument for saying that it is not OK. Since I am playing devils advocate for the relativist possition, that there is no reason for regarding, our post Christian view of murder as a morally certain sin, as in any way having privileged status, over that of someone like an ancient Aztec who regarded it as a moral obligation.

When you don't know shit

Fernapple comments on Feb 11, 2022:

Yes but a horse , a cow and a deer don't all eat the same stuff.

Fernapple replies on Feb 12, 2022:

@GoodMan Of course, and my comment was intended a funny, certainly not serious, even though it is true.

Is morality objective or subjective?

Alienbeing comments on Feb 11, 2022:

You illustrate that you don't know the difference between Moral and Social Acceptability. You also don't seem to know that morals deal with a very limited aspect of life. Morals deal only with taking a life, or taking property. Everything else is either Ethics or Social Acceptability. Sex is not...

Fernapple replies on Feb 12, 2022:

@Alienbeing You are missing my point which is. That I don't have to prove that murder is moral, the Aztecs who believed in it as a holy ritual already did that.

"Contention is better than loneliness" is an Irish saying. Your thoughts?

Marionville comments on Feb 11, 2022:

I can understand the thinking behind this saying and actually think I agree with it. Loneliness is a crushing condition that eats away at the self esteem and well-being of a person and can lead to mental breakdown and suicide. Being friendless and lonely should never be compared to being ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 11, 2022:

Yes but on the other hand, there are people who remain in abusive relationships, for years having there self esteeme crushed, often by one sided contention, Just because of the fear of lonliness and rejection.

Scientism is defined as the view that science and scientific method are the best or only objective ...

Fernapple comments on Feb 11, 2022:

Well if you like to be open minded, then there are other ways of looking at that too. For example you can take the historical view. That once almost all of human culture was religious. Which is to say that, all culture was received wisdom or folly handed down traditionally and only justified by ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 11, 2022:

@racocn8 That is very true.

• X-Men is about civil rights.

Fernapple comments on Feb 11, 2022:

Perhaps the very earliest, Superman, started out fighting the Nazis during the war, and the joke was of course that he was supposed to also be an ironic stab at the Nazi ideal of the racial superman and master race. So that an alien master race was set against a false master race. That enabled quite...

Fernapple replies on Feb 11, 2022:

@Toonman SJW ?

Is morality objective or subjective?

Tejas comments on Feb 11, 2022:

Morality is subjective. As for absolute vs relative, from my knowledge very few things can be considered absolute. I don't know if anything is 100% wrong all the time but some things come to mind. Torture, genocide, indiscriminate killing and corruption just to name a few. I wouldn't say they are ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 11, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay Will look that one up. Thanks.

Is morality objective or subjective?

Tejas comments on Feb 11, 2022:

Morality is subjective. As for absolute vs relative, from my knowledge very few things can be considered absolute. I don't know if anything is 100% wrong all the time but some things come to mind. Torture, genocide, indiscriminate killing and corruption just to name a few. I wouldn't say they are ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 11, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay Yes I can go with that form of relativism, at least. PS. Have you ever read, Being Good, A Short Introduction To Ethics. by Simon Blackburn, it is perhaps a little basic for you, but I strongly recommend it to anyone who is interested in moral philosophy, and it is quite a short read so not a big time waster.

Is morality objective or subjective?

Tejas comments on Feb 11, 2022:

Morality is subjective. As for absolute vs relative, from my knowledge very few things can be considered absolute. I don't know if anything is 100% wrong all the time but some things come to mind. Torture, genocide, indiscriminate killing and corruption just to name a few. I wouldn't say they are ...

Fernapple replies on Feb 11, 2022:

@TheMiddleWay I have always held that there are no absolutes, but at the same time I can not (As you know, we have been here before. ) embrace relativism. Because if you accept that all ideas are equal and that none ever get any nearer to any objective truth than any others, then you become by definition anti progress. Since if there can be no improvement, then there is no point in experiment, research or learning. As with many things I think that your avatar name The Middle Way, is also the, best way. If only because it is the hardest and nothing was ever bettered without effort , work and courage.

Is morality objective or subjective?

Alienbeing comments on Feb 11, 2022:

You illustrate that you don't know the difference between Moral and Social Acceptability. You also don't seem to know that morals deal with a very limited aspect of life. Morals deal only with taking a life, or taking property. Everything else is either Ethics or Social Acceptability. Sex is not...

Fernapple replies on Feb 11, 2022:

Not at all. Many cultures have justified murder, including and especially human sacrifice. Which was especially regarded as highly moral, by the people who lived in those cultures.