ChestRockfield's Profile

I've heard a lot over the years about how religious moderates aren't hurting anyone and that they ...

Larry-new comments on Jun 11, 2020:

Indoctrinating children with lies is child abuse, for one. There's more.

ChestRockfield replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@TheMiddleWay Indoctrination can truly hurt the children and to say only physical abuse is "real" abuse is nothing more than a No True Scotsman fallacy. Tell me Westboro kids weren't seriously fucked up by that.

I've heard a lot over the years about how religious moderates aren't hurting anyone and that they ...

TheMiddleWay comments on Jun 11, 2020:

>>Without religious moderates, religious extremist groups would have no where to recruit members or obtain funding. << The presumes that the extremists are recruiting from the moderates and obtaining their funding from the moderates. But by the very nature of being moderate, they would neither be ...

ChestRockfield replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@TheMiddleWay I find that scenario far less plausible. Someone who doesn't believe in a religion at all suddenly believes 100% and can be convinced to strap a bomb to their chest or murder an abortion doctor? I guess it's possible it could happen, I just don't see that as the major route to membership. I DO know that my tax dollars are used to do terrible shit, and I am ashamed of it. If I didn't know, it wouldn't change the fact that they were. The major difference is once I know what do I do with the information? Do I protest, try to educate people about it, campaign for his opponent, etc. Or do I remain silent and complicit and say, well, I don't really agree with the way he XYZ, but my portfolio looks good so...

I've heard a lot over the years about how religious moderates aren't hurting anyone and that they ...

TheMiddleWay comments on Jun 11, 2020:

>>Without religious moderates, religious extremist groups would have no where to recruit members or obtain funding. << The presumes that the extremists are recruiting from the moderates and obtaining their funding from the moderates. But by the very nature of being moderate, they would neither be ...

ChestRockfield replies on Jun 12, 2020:

@TheMiddleWay What?! Dude, you are sorely mistaken. There absolutely is sexual abuse insurance and it was covered in stories about several lawsuits that were settled by archdiocese in major cities. (And people who put money in collection plates absolutely pay the premiums for it.) Here's an excerpt from one such story: "The Los Angeles archdiocese, its insurers and various Roman Catholic orders have paid more than $114 million to settle 86 claims so far. The largest of those came in December, when the archdiocese reached a $60 million settlement with 45 people whose claims dated from before the mid-1950s and after 1987 — periods when it had little or no sexual abuse insurance." http://www.nbcnews.com/id/19762878/ns/us_news-life/t/la-archdiocese-settle-suits-million/

I've heard a lot over the years about how religious moderates aren't hurting anyone and that they ...

MarkWD comments on Jun 12, 2020:

"Compare the "crazy" beliefs of the marginalized with those of the religious. How different are they, really?" Have you had any success promoting this conspiracy theory, that your average religious practitioner is only in it to provide safe haven for those willing to strap on the explosives? To ...

ChestRockfield replies on Jun 12, 2020:

In no way did I suggest that they are doing it knowingly.

I've heard a lot over the years about how religious moderates aren't hurting anyone and that they ...

indirect76 comments on Jun 11, 2020:

I respect your point of view. However I still think the problem is the extremists not the moderates.

ChestRockfield replies on Jun 11, 2020:

Extremists are terrible, for sure. But what if they were just that, extremists that no one paid any attention to? How menacing are the tin foil hat wearing people from major cities you don't live in to you? Not at all.

I've heard a lot over the years about how religious moderates aren't hurting anyone and that they ...

Mofo1953 comments on Jun 11, 2020:

You should actualize the photo, that Pope left on February 2013.

ChestRockfield replies on Jun 11, 2020:

Yeah, my bad. The current Pope doesn't wear anything ridiculous on his head. (FYI: The original photo was from when I first wrote this.)

I've heard a lot over the years about how religious moderates aren't hurting anyone and that they ...

TheMiddleWay comments on Jun 11, 2020:

>>Without religious moderates, religious extremist groups would have no where to recruit members or obtain funding. << The presumes that the extremists are recruiting from the moderates and obtaining their funding from the moderates. But by the very nature of being moderate, they would neither be ...

ChestRockfield replies on Jun 11, 2020:

It is a near necessity that extremists of religion X were moderates of religion X before being radicalized. How exactly would you think a member of a religion (or no religion) would become an extremist of a religion whose tenets of faith they didn't believe? The same is true of funding. Save for illegal sources of income like drug and arms sales, funding would invariably be funneled from more moderate sources of the same religion. (Much in the way donations to the collection plate on Sunday and funds from Catholic school fundraisers makes its way to the coffers that pays for archdiocese's sexual abuse insurance, or settle lawsuits resulting from the rape of children. Do you think those moderates are aware they are contributing to horrific shit like that? Does not knowing change the fact that they are?).

The manner in which most people use the term "atheist" is unfortunate, because such usage suggests a...

Fernapple comments on Nov 23, 2019:

The two types of atheist are sometimes called 'hard' and 'soft' atheists. True hard atheists are rare, but it is a common straw man argument used by theists, to suggest that all atheists are of that type.

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 24, 2019:

@Paul4747 If you're speaking of strictly suicide bombers, sure, but that was just one over-the-top example. It's hard for me to imagine that people who vote against their own best interests so that they could vote for things that align with their religious beliefs, people who picket abortion clinics, people who allow their children near Catholic priests, people who learn to speak in tongues, people who let their family members die rather than accept blood transfusions, and, most importantly, people who refuse to eat something as delicious as bacon smells because they think they'll go to hell for it aren't true believers. And those are just a few examples off the top of my head. I'm actually kind of shocked that you think the true believers are in the minority.

The manner in which most people use the term "atheist" is unfortunate, because such usage suggests a...

Fernapple comments on Nov 23, 2019:

The two types of atheist are sometimes called 'hard' and 'soft' atheists. True hard atheists are rare, but it is a common straw man argument used by theists, to suggest that all atheists are of that type.

ChestRockfield replies on Nov 24, 2019:

@Paul4747 I'm going to have to disagree with this. There may be some theists that have doubts (otherwise where would all of the former Catholic-turned-atheists come from), but people willing to blow themselves up for their God don't strike me as merely hopeful.

Whats the wrong thing about religion?

wordywalt comments on Aug 17, 2019:

There are many things wrong about religion. The greatest among them is the personal attempt to escape from the freedom that we have by becoming a true-believer in a false total system ideology.

ChestRockfield replies on Oct 27, 2019:

@wordywalt You just said "choose to believe". So again I'd ask: can you choose to believe in God, Santa Claus, or that the sky is purple with pink polka dots? If you can agree that you can't choose to believe all those things, then you you at least agree, at minimum, that not all beliefs can be chosen. From there, it requires a thought experiment of indeterminate length to get you to realize that you can't choose any beliefs. (It mostly centers on one's justification for how one belief can be chosen while another cannot, ultimately getting you to realize that none of the conditions that inform your "choice" are actually under your power, and thus, are not actually a choice at all.)

Whats the wrong thing about religion?

ChestRockfield comments on Aug 18, 2019:

The number one thing that's wrong with all religion is that it supplants inquiry with an unsupported conclusion.

ChestRockfield replies on Oct 27, 2019:

@skado I didn't say religion is superstition, I said religion requires belief without evidence or proof, which necessarily inhibits inquiry and results in its followers believing and/or doing dangerous things. I still believe that is "the wrong thing about religion" (per the OP request) and I don't really understand your objection to or counter evidence of that claim. I also never said religion is only about belief. All belief (not just about religion) invariably informs practice. You seem to keep putting words in my mouth just to argue against them instead of my original claim. Let's avoid straw men going forward. You and I can disagree on your last point here. It seems to claim that we don't understand religion. I have no idea what you could be basing that on. It has been studied, debated, and tested for thousands of years. If you can't say something that not only has no supporting evidence, but actually a tremendous amount of counter-evidence is nonsense, nothing could ever meet your burden of proof for such a label. Essentially your collective argument is: -We've tried to understand it for thousands of years, but we still don't. -Because we don't understand it, we shouldn't label it as nonsense/reject it. By that rationale, the more nonsensical a proposition is the less likely we are to be able to understand it, and thus, further away from labeling it nonsense and rejecting it. Does that really make sense to you?

Whats the wrong thing about religion?

wordywalt comments on Aug 17, 2019:

There are many things wrong about religion. The greatest among them is the personal attempt to escape from the freedom that we have by becoming a true-believer in a false total system ideology.

ChestRockfield replies on Oct 2, 2019:

@wordywalt I'm not going to start a whole big thing in this thread about choice as it relates to belief, but if you think about it (and maybe read about it) you'll realize you have no power over it. As a quick, rhetorical thought experiment ask yourself if you can choose to believe in God, Santa Claus, or that the sky is purple with pink polka dots.

Whats the wrong thing about religion?

DenoPenno comments on Aug 17, 2019:

Better still, what is the right thing about religion?

ChestRockfield replies on Oct 2, 2019:

@averykings That's flawed reasoning. You're saying something is easier to explain if you lie, but then you're not really explaining are you...

Whats the wrong thing about religion?

wordywalt comments on Aug 17, 2019:

There are many things wrong about religion. The greatest among them is the personal attempt to escape from the freedom that we have by becoming a true-believer in a false total system ideology.

ChestRockfield replies on Oct 2, 2019:

Freedom?

Whats the wrong thing about religion?

ChestRockfield comments on Aug 18, 2019:

The number one thing that's wrong with all religion is that it supplants inquiry with an unsupported conclusion.

ChestRockfield replies on Oct 2, 2019:

@skado Your explanation of where you believe religion lives in no way changes what I said. People still believe god does things that are, or will eventually be explained by science, and that, necessarily, inhibits inquiry. I don't understand your objection to that. Additionally, in your first reply to me you spoke of how people respond to religion as if they were separate from it and influenced by it, but now you're saying it's essentially innate and distinct from the written word. But whatever explanation you want to go with, the fact of the matter is that believing something without evidence, especially things people are willing to kill and die for, is a horribly dangerous thing. As for the scholars, these aren't really the people we're talking about. I can be a professor of African American studies without being black or a professor of political science without being a politician. Saying a few people can discern a more rational interpretation of bronze age nonsense, even if they identify as a member of the religion, in no way changes the fact that the vast, vast majority of the billions actual believers in the religion cannot.

Whats the wrong thing about religion?

ChestRockfield comments on Aug 18, 2019:

The number one thing that's wrong with all religion is that it supplants inquiry with an unsupported conclusion.

ChestRockfield replies on Sep 3, 2019:

@skado You really don't agree that the vast majority of religions, past and present, are fundamentally based on a God doing or creating things that would otherwise be explained by science?

Whats the wrong thing about religion?

ChestRockfield comments on Aug 18, 2019:

The number one thing that's wrong with all religion is that it supplants inquiry with an unsupported conclusion.

ChestRockfield replies on Aug 19, 2019:

@skado I'm not talking about the response by the believer, I'm talking about the very nature of religious beliefs (encapsulated best by the phrase "God did it").

Everyone loves the Beatles

ChestRockfield comments on Aug 18, 2019:

I do not like The Beatles. I think they are overrated, and I tend to dislike things that gain more favor than they deserve.

ChestRockfield replies on Aug 18, 2019:

@LenHazell53 No, I'm saying that their talent was not on par with the level of praise they got. Influential and talented are not the same thing.

Every gain has a cost.

MrLizard comments on Mar 10, 2018:

Learning from others. (Of course, a formal education has a price. I'm even paying for my Internet connection to learn from all odf you. But just learning from friends and loved ones is free.)

ChestRockfield replies on Mar 12, 2018:

@MrLizard Isn't that the point of the whole exercise? OP states, every gain has a cost. But let's break that down a little bit. You stated that the time lost is insignificant compared to what we gain. Are you saying collectively what we gain, or what the person learning personally gains? Yes, the highly intelligent among us with the most potential for learning could easily spend a vast majority of their time teaching everyone else all the stuff they don't know, but if they could have been learning the stuff that only a few people can comprehend and solve problems that only a few people could, wouldn't we collectively suffer a vastly greater collective cost than gain? If, however, you're only talking about one person learning something that only takes a few seconds, in passing, that gain is likely as insignificant as the cost.

Every gain has a cost.

MrLizard comments on Mar 10, 2018:

Learning from others. (Of course, a formal education has a price. I'm even paying for my Internet connection to learn from all odf you. But just learning from friends and loved ones is free.)

ChestRockfield replies on Mar 11, 2018:

@MrLizard That's irrelevant. If they're teaching you they're not learning something new during that time.

Every gain has a cost.

MrLizard comments on Mar 10, 2018:

Learning from others. (Of course, a formal education has a price. I'm even paying for my Internet connection to learn from all odf you. But just learning from friends and loved ones is free.)

ChestRockfield replies on Mar 10, 2018:

Teaching necessarily costs them time that they could have used to learn something new themselves.

Every gain has a cost.

Stephanie99 comments on Mar 10, 2018:

Health care advances. Rehabilitation for offenders. Job training programs. These have upfront costs but ultimately save money.

ChestRockfield replies on Mar 10, 2018:

Rehab for offenders has the cost of a non-zero number of innocent people being hurt by re-offenders.

Oopsie Daisy

resserts comments on Feb 25, 2018:

It was years before I realized there wasn't anyone known as "the Dunder Chief" ("dirty deeds and *they're done dirt cheap*). Also, this guy has some funny observations: https://youtu.be/u97o1dN4KvA

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 25, 2018:

A couple of those were so exactly what he said I couldn't even guess what the "real lyrics" were.

Since joining this site I have had an ongoing question that I ask myself.

Scoobs comments on Feb 20, 2018:

The funny thing --- how do you know whether you're the smartest person or the dumbest person in the room? :)

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 20, 2018:

@Scoobs Hate to break it to you, no one here agrees on the definitions of those words either.

Since joining this site I have had an ongoing question that I ask myself.

Kimba comments on Feb 20, 2018:

The smartest person in the room knows they still have a lot to learn as does the dumbest, it's some arrogant schmuck somewhere in between that is sure they have all the answers.

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 20, 2018:

@Troy Do you know who I'm talking about??

Since joining this site I have had an ongoing question that I ask myself.

Kimba comments on Feb 20, 2018:

The smartest person in the room knows they still have a lot to learn as does the dumbest, it's some arrogant schmuck somewhere in between that is sure they have all the answers.

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 20, 2018:

@Kimba Please explain what about their study/conclusions supports your claim that the dumbest person in the room knows they have a lot to learn...

Since joining this site I have had an ongoing question that I ask myself.

Scoobs comments on Feb 20, 2018:

The funny thing --- how do you know whether you're the smartest person or the dumbest person in the room? :)

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 20, 2018:

@Rudy1962 It's possible to know you're one of the smartest, very unlikely you'll know you're the dumbest.

Since joining this site I have had an ongoing question that I ask myself.

Kimba comments on Feb 20, 2018:

The smartest person in the room knows they still have a lot to learn as does the dumbest, it's some arrogant schmuck somewhere in between that is sure they have all the answers.

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 20, 2018:

Dunning & Kruger disagree with you. :-P

The following is a letter to the editor I just sent to the Tampa Bay Times: Conservative do not...

cmadler comments on Feb 20, 2018:

Too often, liberals seek change for the sake of change, without taking the time to fully consider consequences. We shouldn't do things just because "it's tradition" but it's worth considering that if people have done something a certain way for millennia, there might be good reasons for that, even ...

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 20, 2018:

In what way do you think this is a classic problem of liberals, and not right-wing religious conservatives?

Is ignorance bliss?

resserts comments on Feb 18, 2018:

I think the idiom refers to ignorance of something negative in particular (e.g., a partner whose cheating you never learn about, or a child who took a stupid risk one night without your knowledge), and I think that's often true. Ignorance in the broader sense, just lacking knowledge in the ways of ...

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 19, 2018:

Satisfaction? Uugh, not one bit. People have given the word 'elite' a negative connotation and used it to vilify those among us that can actually advance our society. We used to want our best and brightest to take the lead, and now we just give them shit for "thinking they're better than everyone else." People are awful anyway; let it all burn.

Is ignorance bliss?

JILost comments on Feb 18, 2018:

On the one hand, it's hard to be upset about world events if you don't follow the news to know what they are; but on the other hand, even mentally handicapped people find things to get upset over. No one can live entirely free from negative feelings and situations.

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 18, 2018:

Yes, but it's far less frequent and generally more trivial, so it faster and easier to get over. I have cared for many mentally handicapped people and they seem much happier than everyone else a vast majority of the time.

Which one of THESE fetishes would you be most willing to deal with?

evestrat comments on Dec 18, 2017:

I'd be down with these three: Katoptronophilia -- being turned on by having sex in front of mirrors; dated a guy who had mirrors everywhere in his house for this reason ... ;) Partialism -- arousal to non-reproductive body parts; had a boyfriend who found my calves extremely erotic ... all ...

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 14, 2018:

When a girl's pony tail curls back towards her neck I'm all in.

Which one of THESE fetishes would you be most willing to deal with?

ReadyforaChange comments on Dec 18, 2017:

I ain't suckin' NOBODY'S nasty toes.

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 14, 2018:

'Specially if she got 'Hammer Time' in her shoes.

Why do women have to basically spell it out for men in what they want? Why are they so clueless?

JackPedigo comments on Feb 14, 2018:

Maybe it's in our jeans!

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 14, 2018:

@jlynn37 Burn

Smoking In Cars With Children Is Illegal Starting January 30, 2018

Dick_Martin comments on Feb 9, 2018:

I am waiting for the day states are battling over whether or not to allow smoking of marijuana in public places

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 11, 2018:

@Dick_Martin It's actually a great place to work. Best job I've ever had. Took a pay cut to go there and it was worth every penny. I'm just stating facts. @GreenAtheist are you referring to nicotine?

Do you think abortions should be illegal?

Kojaksmom comments on Feb 9, 2018:

No i fully support a woman s right to choose. Abortion can be modified slightly, but should never be outlawed.

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 11, 2018:

In some areas of the country, there's no difference. If you are for restrictions, you do not fully support the right for all women to choose.

Do you think abortions should be illegal?

JimmyM comments on Feb 9, 2018:

I'm in the 'woman's right to choose' camp. Never going to be an easy decision

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 11, 2018:

@jlynn37 I'm with you. I've known women who have said it was a very easy decision given the circumstances...

Do you think abortions should be illegal?

UrsiMajor comments on Feb 9, 2018:

I stand with Roe v Wade. 1st trimester , it's up to mother. After that, threat to mother's health, rape and incest are a valid reason for abortion.

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 11, 2018:

So you just stand *near* Roe v Wade then I guess...

What’s your thoughts on profanity?

Zster comments on Feb 11, 2018:

1. Words, in and of themselves have no power 2. Perceived word power is on behalf of the perceiver. The listener has to choose whether or no to be offended, regardless of the intent. I have better things to do with my time than being perpetually offended. 3. Many in society will judge. Such is a...

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 11, 2018:

I think number 7 would be that if everyone stopped using all words we classify as profanity entirely, there would be a new set of the "worst words" that would then become profane. It is another iteration of a euphemism treadmill. Sad people can't realize that and drop the whole debate.

Smoking In Cars With Children Is Illegal Starting January 30, 2018

TommyMeador comments on Feb 10, 2018:

What's next, failing to indoctrinate children into theism will be a crime? You know that endangers their immortal soul. Maybe we should redefine free speech as anything that isn't contrary to fundamentalist Christianity. Should we outlaw free thought? ;) ;( ;-)

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 11, 2018:

@TommyMeador I think this is significantly different than even bans on smoking in public places. I can see why a business would like to maintain the ability to let their patrons smoke inside and then leave it up to the public whether or not to patronize the establishment (for most places). But these children do not have the ability to not "patronize" their parents' cars. Also, we don't need to outlaw free thought because it doesn't exist. ;-)

Smoking In Cars With Children Is Illegal Starting January 30, 2018

steve148 comments on Feb 10, 2018:

Why do legislators constantly pass laws that take away personal choices. Weather you support smoking or not. That is not the issue. The issue is laws being passed that take away rights. Example: Helmets, same sex marriage, weed use, seat belts, etc, etc. etc.

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 11, 2018:

@steve148 Are you not able to see the other side of that coin *that I already pointed out in my last comment*? There are tons of potential consequences that we can anticipate when someone "exercises their right to be stupid". Let's say Joe Freedom wants to ride his motorcycle without a helmet. While doing so, he gets into an accident and become severely injured and gets life-flighted to a level 1 trauma hospital where he spends months in the neuro intensive care for a head injury that could have been prevented by a helmet. Should the insurance company have to pay for the bill and pass the cost along to all of their other insured customers? Should the state pay with taxes and pass the cost along to all the citizens in higher taxes? Should those costs get as mitigated as much as possible by bankrupting his family? Should insurance companies be allowed to deny payment because their insured was taking unnecessary risk? What about the patient that needed that ICU bed that had to be placed on a step-down unit because he wasn't as acute? What about the rights of all of the other people that are compromised because of his choice? Have you ever heard of the adage, "Your rights end where another's begin"? You need to think about other people's rights when evaluating these situations.

Smoking In Cars With Children Is Illegal Starting January 30, 2018

ScienceBiker comments on Feb 9, 2018:

It's amazing our generation survived without all that helpful legislation.

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 11, 2018:

@evidentialist Don't put this on me, there's a huge difference between a self-described atheist making a joke about holding a religious belief and someone in the typical age demographic making a statement that many people in that demographic make with no signs it was a joke. Hell, on this post alone Steve148 below was making a similar stupid argument (proving this site doesn't automatically weed out the type of person I assumed you were). You can fail to make it clear you are joking all you want in your pursuit of not using emojis, but be prepared for people to call you out. I just wonder how many people wrote you off as 'just another old guy that makes asinine claims about how things used to be so much better back in the day' instead of seeking clarification or calling you out.

Smoking In Cars With Children Is Illegal Starting January 30, 2018

Dick_Martin comments on Feb 9, 2018:

I am waiting for the day states are battling over whether or not to allow smoking of marijuana in public places

ChestRockfield replies on Feb 11, 2018:

@Dick_Martin My employer even tests for nicotine for new hires and will deny employment for that alone, even though all forms of nicotine are legal.

Please Tell Me One Body Part You Hate Or Find Least Attractive About Yourself

evidentialist comments on Feb 10, 2018:

First, define ugly for me so I can understand what you are saying. Because ugly is an adjective, it is subjective. What is ugly to one may be beautiful to another.